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07/09/2015 14:22:46

DyllyMuvizu mogulExperimental user
Dylly
Posts: 555
A question for the modellers out there and of course at ZUHQ.

I'm currently modelling a gable end which contains a round window and frame. Now the simplest method of construction is the 'ol Boolean subtraction. However my personal preference is for using a subdivision method, more stable, better topology although polygon intensive.

I suppose the real question is how important is topology in creating Muvizu assets?

Edited to add...just realised that Muvizu HQ in the Norfolk dialect comes out as Zoo 'aich Coo!
edited by Dylly on 07/09/2015
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07/09/2015 15:36:09

urbanlamb
urbanlamb
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Posts: 1796
Detail is usually created with normal maps and vector maps not polygons for the final model. You would create a very high poly model and put all your detail into that and then create a lower poly verson if the original and bake out the detail of the high poly model using the uvmap of the low poly model to create a normal map.

so basically do not get polygon intensive ever. If you can avoid boolean subtraction and use other more economical methods you should as these operations are not really meant for the final version of a game engine model they are there for creating the original high detail model.

In muvizu's engine your limited to the normal map I think although to be honest I have never created something that really required I use a vector map to bring out detail.

That being said for some objects this high poly/low poly stuff may be overkill and a lot of objects can be created with old fashioned box modelling.. I would avoid the booleans on those as well though. Always be mindfull of poly count in other words.

for the models just use quads and things like edge crease and sharp edge marking etc to bring out detail. You should not use polygons to bring out detail whenever possible.


didnt watch all of it just the beginning but it seems to give the info on normal mapping and game asset creation.









edited by urbanlamb on 07/09/2015
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08/09/2015 20:09:13

DyllyMuvizu mogulExperimental user
Dylly
Posts: 555
Now then my young lamb What you a doing of?

Just in case you are a little confused about my usual greeting to you...I'm just showing my age! Of course this is what Earnest the Policeman would say to Larry the Lamb in the Adventures of Toytown. I had a little reminisce and watched the following episode...chortling at the double entendre contained in an episode made way before political correctness was invented.


I like the Tales of Nalestone Tutorials. I'm seriously thinking of purchasing 3D coat...however the trial version I've just downloaded seems to go weird on my lappy...probably not enough power to run it?

I've gone for my usual approach of topology first. Although it means a higher poly count, about 1800 faces in that one section, it makes for a more interesting asset. I shall keep trying to reduce that count though as it seems to be around half of the count for the whole scene...and I need multiple copies of the model in the scene. I might try knocking something up from splines and see if this will give me the 'smoothness' I need in the curves yet keep the polycount more manageable. Although I seem to have a need to connect all of the vertices to keep my topology smooth...maybe I'm being over fussy?

Edited to add: Going back to Larry the Lamb...Just goes to show that 'Low Poly characters were around before the software to create them!
edited by Dylly on 08/09/2015
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08/09/2015 20:34:13

urbanlamb
urbanlamb
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Posts: 1796
haha i am not so young over 50 actually anyhow (2 more years to retire for me actually as I am taking an early retirement). I dont know if my info helped or not. I strive for as low polygon as I can get and do use the fbx muvizu and normal maps etc blah blah blah .

3dcoat is extremely awesome I think its like the best thing since sliced bread.. that is how awesome I think it is

I still use my blender for rigging and bringing it all together but I usually start in 3dcoat these days. The texturing and stuff is great and you can tweak older models etc. Did I say it was awesome?

edit:
3dcoat needs a very hefty video card and lots of ram it wont run on a low end system. It takes advantage of CUDA for speed which is an nvidia thing so you need a strong desktop pc with a high end ndvidia graphics card. The modelling/scuplting process is using voxels and the PBR substance painting is a very "new" thing that really requires modern pc's. Dont run it on your laptop or on an aging system it will .. well if you get it to run for any length of time overwork it and your going to kill your card prematurely.


You really need a graphics card with a minimum of 2 gig of ram to use it properly. I am sure others manage to limp along with less but the lag would likely make me want to throw my pc out the window Big Grin


a work in progress I am trying to use it for environmental stuff right now so started this on the weekend its super easy to make your own pbr materials with this as well which is something I appreciate.






LOL dont know why its still showing up as an edu version I have the full version now.. I started with edu in case I could not get it to run well enough to use it. Anyhow yes its awesome (on the right type of pc)
edited by urbanlamb on 08/09/2015
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08/09/2015 21:12:08

fazz68
fazz68
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Posts: 767
coolarama mate
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08/09/2015 21:40:51

urbanlamb
urbanlamb
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Posts: 1796
Never tried using it for this type of stuff so not sure how its all gonna turn out in the end.. that is an entire set right there. I am still working on the textures but well you get the idea.
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08/09/2015 21:59:18

DyllyMuvizu mogulExperimental user
Dylly
Posts: 555
I'm thinking of having a go at building my own custom PC...saving up for the right bits and pieces...but its one of those projects where I know nothing about it at all. I want a machine that will run Max, 3D coat or mudbox, whichever I settle on, and my Muvizu with extreme ease. I have started on my custom work station though...well got as far as purchasing the timber. My current desk has a bit of history to it...it used to belong to Douglas Bader the WW2 fighter pilot, but its not suitable for modern PC work...its too tall and I end up with shoulder ache after a few hours. I'm currently designing a new desk with built in light box set into the surface, my graphics tablet and keyboard set into the surface and space for all of the cables, additional storage drives etc to be hidden out of the way.

Back to the polycount...the spline built version of the model comes in at around half the polycount of the extruded version so far!
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08/09/2015 22:02:21

MrDrWho13Muvizu mogulExperimental user
MrDrWho13
Posts: 2220
Dylly wrote:
I'm thinking of having a go at building my own custom PC...saving up for the right bits and pieces...but its one of those projects where I know nothing about it at all. I want a machine that will run Max, 3D coat or mudbox, whichever I settle on, and my Muvizu with extreme ease.

Ahem
This is where I can help. Big Grin
edited by MrDrWho13 on 08/09/2015
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08/09/2015 22:10:13

primaveranz
primaveranz
Posts: 524
Dylly wrote:
My current desk has a bit of history to it...it used to belong to Douglas Bader the WW2 fighter pilot


Admit it. The salesman just told you that because it only has two legs
edited by primaveranz on 08/09/2015
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08/09/2015 22:26:06

urbanlamb
urbanlamb
(Account inactive)
Posts: 1796
Dylly wrote:
I'm thinking of having a go at building my own custom PC...saving up for the right bits and pieces...but its one of those projects where I know nothing about it at all. I want a machine that will run Max, 3D coat or mudbox, whichever I settle on, and my Muvizu with extreme ease. I have started on my custom work station though...well got as far as purchasing the timber. My current desk has a bit of history to it...it used to belong to Douglas Bader the WW2 fighter pilot, but its not suitable for modern PC work...its too tall and I end up with shoulder ache after a few hours. I'm currently designing a new desk with built in light box set into the surface, my graphics tablet and keyboard set into the surface and space for all of the cables, additional storage drives etc to be hidden out of the way.

Back to the polycount...the spline built version of the model comes in at around half the polycount of the extruded version so far!



I'm such a bad influence just ask fazz. I can help anyone spend their hard earned money if they so wish LOL

My opinion on the company autodesk well if you want to spend more money then their software is worth. I would go for anything but autodesk. They will bleed you for every cent they can for the silliest of things. This is my personal opinion though I think they are thieves trying to leach every dime out of their customers and a reason why i pay money to the blender foundation ^^


I also stopped using adobe recently when they switched to the cloud based must subscribe service. Autodesk is also using this route. I dont want to pay for such services and would rather just not use any products and go with blender then pay like that. Anyhow I would suggest you look at other options there is no need to use their stuff and there are lots of options out there.


Take a look at their competitors unless you want to pay autodesk 1.5k per year to keep your software or whatever it is for 3dsmax right now. *end autodesk rant*
edited by urbanlamb on 08/09/2015
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09/09/2015 00:41:58

DyllyMuvizu mogulExperimental user
Dylly
Posts: 555
I have to admit I don't like the corporates when it comes to software. I use Openoffice, Photoshop got kicked into touch years ago...but Blender I'm afraid is a step too far for me. It may have changed in the last two years but an hour with Blender is like swimming through a sea of spaghetti trying to unravel the knots hoping beyond hope that I find a strand that will lead me from A to B without having to open another tin of spaghetti to find the particular strand that's still in development and will change the face of free 3D modelling, but its not here yet... there may be a workaround on the youtube, but may arrive soon. After weeks of trying to get my head around Blender I took the drastic but satisfying step of taking my PC outside and putting a UK size 12 through it...the MD didn't like that one bit.


I may take another look, you may have twisted my arm...although if the UI is anything like I remember, its delete time! I don't think I can afford the therapy I will require from a close association with Blender...and Lamb will have to provide tea, sympathy and paracetamols!
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09/09/2015 01:29:34

urbanlamb
urbanlamb
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Posts: 1796
haha its true i am an autodesk "hater" but .. I think my dislike is justified the way they charge their customers for stuff and then charge them again etc.

blender UI has changed a lot from the original incarnation in fact its very similar for modelling at least to maya. They are busy getting rid of "legacy code" right now but blender has changed a lot since its original incarnation which I had trouble with as well then one day they decided to fix it and then I had no trouble switching over.

Meanwhile I feel there are things like modo out there which does exactly what 3dsmax does for less money and no monthly whatsits among other things.

3dcoat it took me awhile to pick up the interface well for me that means maybe a weekend or two. I still haven't discovered what all the buttons are about but I am getting there. Blender at this time to me handles like any of the other counterparts in the industry now really its not more or less confusing.

(to me anyhow but at this point I have been using it for many years lost count really.. i started using it in the old interface .... when there was not much info.. the going was slow and that was 2007? or so dunno I muddled through and then finally the interface changed and I gobbled it up at breakneck speed and dispensed with every other tool I was using at the time ^^)

as an aside i just remembered this (i hated it but this is because i use vanilla blender) many recommend using Blender Sensei if you are looking for a different UI so if you download vanilla blender and hate it you can try this version.

http://blendersensei.com/

apparently this is much easier to learn. I dont know I downloaded some brushes I liked the look of there and used the automatic addon and was completely lost.. and spent awhile putting my blender back the "regular way" and then fished out the brushes and added them manually so.. I hated it so that probably means its great for new users who are not used to blender at all
edited by urbanlamb on 09/09/2015
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09/09/2015 09:13:48

DyllyMuvizu mogulExperimental user
Dylly
Posts: 555
"Wax on...Wax off!" Ah Sensei I'm in about 5 tutorials and things are starting to make sense. It may be a combination of the Sensei UI being more logical to use and the chap doing the Sensei tutorials is a very good teacher...but it does demystify and declutter the scatological Blender immensely. Could we be seeing the dawn of a new era for Dylly's PC...with Muvizu and Windows 7 being sole proprietary software? What's that I here you whisper? Linux? What's that about then?
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09/09/2015 16:45:11

urbanlamb
urbanlamb
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Posts: 1796
haha well then hopefully in a few days you will be able to use the blender UI and do your models in there. So glad I remembered it at the last minute
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