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Home ? How Do I ...? ? Assigna Material for an imported FBX prop.

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27/04/2016 10:39:19

primaveranz
primaveranz
Posts: 520
Hi,
Is there a way to import a multi-material and textured FBX model into Muvizu and have the ability to assign the correct texture (e.g. a jpg) to each material once imported? I only seem to be able to assign colours to the material when editing a prop, not an actual texture. Or is this a limitation of using FBX?
Cheers.
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27/04/2016 12:38:18

WabbyMuvizu mogulExperimental user
Wabby
Posts: 98
Hello primaveranz,

You can do that with FBX, look at the wiki for more details : http://muvizu.com/Wiki
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27/04/2016 21:57:19

primaveranz
primaveranz
Posts: 520
Thanks Wabby, I keep forgetting the Wiki exists.
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08/05/2016 05:34:05

primaveranz
primaveranz
Posts: 520
No luck here. Whenever I import an FBX I only get an option to change a texture colour not the texture image that I applied in Milkshape3D. I guess it must be the version of FBX that is the issue.
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08/05/2016 05:48:03

primaveranz
primaveranz
Posts: 520
Nope not that either. I converted the FBX to the latest format using the Autodesk FBX converter. Maybe it has something to do with the material naming....
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08/05/2016 14:17:00

clayster2012Muvizu mogul
clayster2012
Posts: 645
the only format that will let you choose multi-texture that I know of so for is ase, convert your model to that but make sure you save it in the same folder you have your textures in, don't use texture and color combinations or you will get a messed up textured model, or you wont be able to move or edit to model, I use ase formats a lot and it seem to be the only one that works for me.
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08/05/2016 14:20:39

clayster2012Muvizu mogul
clayster2012
Posts: 645
Also the best way to do it without any problems is to just take all of your textures and edit them as one texture all together, maybe a bit too much but hey it works
edited by clayster2012 on 08/05/2016
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08/05/2016 14:43:42

ziggy72Muvizu mogulExperimental user
ziggy72
Posts: 1988
Blender's FBX exporter works well enough with Muvizu that you can retain the textures - export your model as an OBJ with materials, import into blender, export as FBX (Smoothing set to Faces not Normals) and your model should import into Muvizu with textures intact. Should
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08/05/2016 19:41:42

primaveranz
primaveranz
Posts: 520
Thanks guys. I think I'll have to try the Blender route as I don't think I can export to ASE from Milkshape3d.
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08/05/2016 21:41:44

clayster2012Muvizu mogul
clayster2012
Posts: 645
There are several versions of milkshake 3d that can export to ase.I have one, when I get home I'll tell you what version I have, sorry can't remember off the top of my head
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08/05/2016 23:24:40

primaveranz
primaveranz
Posts: 520
Thanks Clayster, I have 1.84 and 1.85 but haven't checked the export yet. I tried the Blender approach, but it failed because the model had no collision mesh. However I see Urbanlamb has a tute on how to add this in Blender so I will give that a go as well when I get back home.
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09/05/2016 01:14:18

clayster2012Muvizu mogul
clayster2012
Posts: 645
Ok primaveranz, Im home and the version that I have on Milkshape3D 1.8.5, I use it for all of my easy models, this version has the ase export feature.
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09/05/2016 06:34:32

primaveranz
primaveranz
Posts: 520
Worked like a dream, thanks Clayster! Don't know how I missed the ASE export before. I'll finish the Blender version too just for completeness sake
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09/05/2016 07:03:58

primaveranz
primaveranz
Posts: 520
Just out of interest, I notice that with more complex models that I can't edit them on the set (e.g. move them etc.) Is there a maximum file size or something for imported objects?
edited by primaveranz on 09/05/2016
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09/05/2016 11:05:28

ukBertyMuvizu mogulExperimental user
ukBerty
Posts: 975
When you say you can't edit or move them - do you mean they won't select ?

If so make sure that all parts of the model are a single model. In Autodesk this procedure is called "Attach" - not sure of the terminology elsewhere.

Also make sure your collision box is all sorted as well.
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12/05/2016 01:53:27

primaveranz
primaveranz
Posts: 520
ukBerty wrote:
When you say you can't edit or move them - do you mean they won't select ?


Sorry, I just saw this. Yes I meant I couldn't select it to edit. I could do it through the scene manager dialog box though. Will investigate merging all the groups into one before exporting - hopefully it won't screw up the UVs.
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12/05/2016 05:57:19

ukBertyMuvizu mogulExperimental user
ukBerty
Posts: 975
primaveranz wrote:
Sorry, I just saw this. Yes I meant I couldn't select it to edit. I could do it through the scene manager dialog box though. Will investigate merging all the groups into one before exporting - hopefully it won't screw up the UVs.


I usually get this with ASE files imported that are multiple objects within the same model. Once they are all attached into a single object they should import and you can select.
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27/05/2016 20:17:36

RodrisilvaMuvizu mogulExperimental user
Rodrisilva
Posts: 113
Hi guys

I have been doing some tests around FBX importing, trying a way to get UV mapping tree foliage in planes. I believe muvizu is not able to use opacity maps like other 3d softwares. Imported trees always show textured planes and if I apply any transparency on it, tree leaves took the same polygon transparency level.

Do you have any idea how to get plane transparency without make leaves transparent too. I have trying something in blender that could succced but muvizu doesn't save the opacity map when you save the set.

https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B2ire-Bv_13ibHhNVVlKcTJYbVE


https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B2ire-Bv_13iYl9UaFQ1R0d6c00/view?usp=sharing
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27/05/2016 21:49:17

primaveranz
primaveranz
Posts: 520
Not really a solution but could you make the leaves a separate object and/or put them on a different layer? I don't "get" layers yet, so ignore if it is a stupid idea
Or are you talking about having "billboards"?
I don't think Muvizu can use .DDS files can it? I seem to remember seeing transparency issues in Moviestorm which were fixed by swapping .PNG files for .DDS versions (there are differences between the DXT3 and DXT5 versions also).

BTW the second screenshot looks great to me, not sure what your problem actually is?
edited by primaveranz on 27/05/2016
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27/05/2016 22:21:32

primaveranz
primaveranz
Posts: 520
I still have the problem that I can't move certain .ASE object that I import. I can't select them directly but can through the Scene manager and I can Edit the texture etc. However if I try to move them the scene moves instead.
E.g. I made a transparent glass which worked fine, then made a Jug with a few more polys and now have the issue. I will try and narrow it down but if it is Poly-related then it is a really low level of ma polys that causes the issue.
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27/05/2016 22:33:39

primaveranz
primaveranz
Posts: 520
And of course I can import and move the FBX version of the same glass jug but I can't make it 2-sided!
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28/05/2016 03:33:41

ziggy72Muvizu mogulExperimental user
ziggy72
Posts: 1988
primaveranz wrote:
I still have the problem that I can't move certain .ASE object that I import. I can't select them directly but can through the Scene manager and I can Edit the texture etc. However if I try to move them the scene moves instead.
E.g. I made a transparent glass which worked fine, then made a Jug with a few more polys and now have the issue. I will try and narrow it down but if it is Poly-related then it is a really low level of ma polys that causes the issue.

It's not polys, but rather something to do with the model's construction and/or collision. I've had it very few times though. Interestingly, one of Muvizu's own objects is also 'unclickable' in this way (a billboard sign I think it is).
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28/05/2016 03:35:38

ziggy72Muvizu mogulExperimental user
ziggy72
Posts: 1988
Rodrisilva wrote:
Hi guys

I have been doing some tests around FBX importing, trying a way to get UV mapping tree foliage in planes. I believe muvizu is not able to use opacity maps like other 3d softwares. Imported trees always show textured planes and if I apply any transparency on it, tree leaves took the same polygon transparency level.

Do you have any idea how to get plane transparency without make leaves transparent too. I have trying something in blender that could succced but muvizu doesn't save the opacity map when you save the set.

https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B2ire-Bv_13ibHhNVVlKcTJYbVE


https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B2ire-Bv_13iYl9UaFQ1R0d6c00/view?usp=sharing

Muvizu can use Opacity Masking (I use it with my trees) but only through the Alpha option on the ASE import menu, not FBX.
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28/05/2016 06:05:56

primaveranz
primaveranz
Posts: 520
Well I seem to have cracked it but not really sure how. I created a transparent jug which finally worked as long as I made sure every vertice was assigned to a "joint" in Milkshape and that all groups which used the same material were grouped as one. I wanted a half-full jug - I'm that kind of guy - so I tried just putting a translucent cylinder mesh of "juice" inside the successful jug and gave it a different material. But that just caused the return of the "can't move" problem. So I deleted the cylinder and extruded the base of the jug upwards (having shrunk the extruded face slightly to fit inside) applied a different material to that and lo and behold it worked.

Also choose the "don't use ID textures option" when importing .ASE if you want to use materials rather than just colours.
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28/05/2016 06:41:15

ukBertyMuvizu mogulExperimental user
ukBerty
Posts: 975
I usually get this with ASE files imported that are multiple objects within the same model. Once they are all attached into a single object they should import and you can select.

So in Autodesk I always make sure I "attach" all objects together. I don't know what the terminology is in Milkshape but this is definitely the fix as it's taken me about 3 years to work out what was happening.
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28/05/2016 08:12:01

primaveranz
primaveranz
Posts: 520
I think the crucial thing is that all groups that use the same material must be regrouped together as one.
E.g. I have two separate groups in my recent models - one with a transparent "glass" texture and the other with a "drink" texture. I keep them as separate groups and that works fine, whereas a previous version which was all grouped as one object didn't. And another which had three groups, two using the same material didn't.
Of course YMMV if you don't use Milkshape. Still haven't figured out how to get two-sided FBX out of it, but I can't see any advantage over .ASE anyway so far at least.
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05/06/2016 05:34:13

primaveranz
primaveranz
Posts: 520
Still trying to sort out FBX imports. This time with a transparency. With .ASE it seems like you can have the whole model transparent or none of it.
With FBX I am now getting a message saying "The feature you are trying to use is not licenced for this version of Muvizu." Without a transparency the model imports OK......
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05/06/2016 06:29:14

ukBertyMuvizu mogulExperimental user
ukBerty
Posts: 975
I think that is the present situation.

Separate your model out into transparent and non-transparent elements and import them separately.

You will of course have to get rid of the dreaded collision and offset the axis to make the bits fit back together.
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05/06/2016 06:36:01

primaveranz
primaveranz
Posts: 520
Thanks UKBerty, I just deleted the transparent segment and made the model two-sided instead, not as good but far less frustrating than trying to line it all up again.
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05/06/2016 15:06:51

PatMarrNCMuvizu mogul
PatMarrNC
Posts: 1738
ukBerty wrote:
I think that is the present situation.

Separate your model out into transparent and non-transparent elements and import them separately.

You will of course have to get rid of the dreaded collision and offset the axis to make the bits fit back together.


Ah! So THAT'S the secret! Thanks for posting that UKBerty! Several months ago I created a convertible with a transparent glass windshield and couldn't overcome these same obstacles... I'll have to give it another try based on your input!
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09/06/2016 11:11:51

primaveranz
primaveranz
Posts: 520
The ongoing story...the reason the FBX was"not licenced" was because the model had a skeleton. Once I removed that it imported OK but it steadfastly refuses to allow me to allocate textures inside Muvizu, just colours.
I am talking to Jamie about it and will let you know the outcome.
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07/08/2016 22:02:29

PatMarrNCMuvizu mogul
PatMarrNC
Posts: 1738
ziggy72 wrote:
Blender's FBX exporter works well enough with Muvizu that you can retain the textures - export your model as an OBJ with materials, import into blender, export as FBX (Smoothing set to Faces not Normals) and your model should import into Muvizu with textures intact. Should


Where do you find this Blender setting "Smoothing set to faces?"
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07/08/2016 22:04:35

MrDrWho13Muvizu mogulExperimental user
MrDrWho13
Posts: 2220
PatMarrNC wrote:
ziggy72 wrote:
Blender's FBX exporter works well enough with Muvizu that you can retain the textures - export your model as an OBJ with materials, import into blender, export as FBX (Smoothing set to Faces not Normals) and your model should import into Muvizu with textures intact. Should


Where do you find this Blender setting "Smoothing set to faces?"

There will be an option called "Smoothing" that you need to set to "Faces". I guess it's in the export menu somewhere.
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07/08/2016 22:11:44

ikesMuvizu mogul
ikes
Posts: 282
Yes, when you export to fbx, where you type the filename, on the bottom left are options. The smoothing is under shaders.
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07/08/2016 22:47:10

PatMarrNCMuvizu mogul
PatMarrNC
Posts: 1738
found it in the export FBX dialog (Geometries > smoothing > face )

Thanks guys!
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08/08/2016 15:55:33

PatMarrNCMuvizu mogul
PatMarrNC
Posts: 1738
regarding Milkshape's ability to export ASE...

I Downloaded Milkshape a while ago, but never installed it (learning curve paralysis). Also my hard drive was getting full.

Now I added 3 terabytes of hard drive, so I'm reconsidering what to install. Can somebody who uses Milkshape give me an idea about how long it takes to export in ASE format from that software? I like the format because it does surface smoothing and it allows alpha and has the ability to assign multiple textures etc.

But exporting from Sketchup is much slower than blenders FBX export. If Milkshapes built-in export is faster than Sketchup's plugin export, I'll have to give it a try.

Your thoughts?
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10/08/2016 17:08:26

PatMarrNCMuvizu mogul
PatMarrNC
Posts: 1738
Nobody replied to my question, so I just went ahead and installed Milkshape.

I haven't had time to explore its 3D modelling potential, but its lonnng list of supported formats (both import and export) alone makes it well worth the modest price tag! It only costs 25 euros (currently about $28 USD)

The good news is that its built-in ASE export is MUCH faster than Sketchup's. I exported a model that took Sketchup well over an hour to create, and Milkshape exported it in less than the time it took me to open the directory to see if it was there! I like that!

The internal format looks a bit different so I'll have to experiment to see if the batch file I use to add tiny collision works the same way... but I was impressed enough to pay the minimal fee immediately, even if I only use it for exporting ASE and FBX (But I'm sure I'll use it for more than that)

Clayster, if you read this, please let me know what check boxes you check when creating your ASE files in Milkshape.
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10/08/2016 19:59:56

primaveranz
primaveranz
Posts: 520
PatMarrNC wrote:
Nobody replied to my question, so I just went ahead and installed Milkshape.


Sorry Pat, I missed ths one. Yes I use Milkshape for almost all my modelling. It is simple and pretty intuitive but a bit of a faff if you want to create organic shapes. The only downside for use with Muvizu is that it exports an old version of FBX which, even if you convert it using the Autodesk tool either won't (or won't always - I can't remember at the moment) allow you to assign textures to the finished model in Muvizu.
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10/08/2016 23:35:50

PatMarrNCMuvizu mogul
PatMarrNC
Posts: 1738
primaveranz wrote:
PatMarrNC wrote:
Nobody replied to my question, so I just went ahead and installed Milkshape.


Sorry Pat, I missed ths one. Yes I use Milkshape for almost all my modelling. It is simple and pretty intuitive but a bit of a faff if you want to create organic shapes. The only downside for use with Muvizu is that it exports an old version of FBX which, even if you convert it using the Autodesk tool either won't (or won't always - I can't remember at the moment) allow you to assign textures to the finished model in Muvizu.


my experience with FBX in other modelling programs is as follows:

In the modelling environment, if I have assigned a color to my model before saving to OBJ file, then when I convert it to FBX in Blender and open it in Muvizu it will only let me change the color it had when exported as OBJ


But if I add a texture to it in the modelling environment THEN export as OBJ, and use Blender to convert the OBJ to FBX, Muvizu recognizes that it had a texture, and I get the option to pick between another texture OR a color.

(when you save an OBJ file, a materials file is also created, and apparently that information continues through the chain of exporting to FBX and subsequent use in Muvizu. That file must refer to a texture in order to assign another texture to it later in Muvizu.)
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10/08/2016 23:42:27

primaveranz
primaveranz
Posts: 520
I never use colours to assign to Materials in Milkshape, just textures.
However the results are patchy especially if transparencies are involved. Because you have to re-group all the Milkshape groups into a single one before exporting, that means you can only have a single material and I think that is where the problem lies.
I have tried using a single .PNG file with a transparent part but it has never worked as I want it to.
Even if I get the option to choose a material inside Muvizu it "tiles" the image across the object instead of adhering to the UV mapping done inside Milkshape.
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10/08/2016 23:49:07

PatMarrNCMuvizu mogul
PatMarrNC
Posts: 1738
primaveranz wrote:
I never use colours to assign to Materials in Milkshape, just textures.
However the results are patchy especially if transparencies are involved. Because you have to re-group all the Milkshape groups into a single one before exporting, that means you can only have a single material and I think that is where the problem lies.
I have tried using a single .PNG file with a transparent part but it has never worked as I want it to.
Even if I get the option to choose a material inside Muvizu it "tiles" the image across the object instead of adhering to the UV mapping done inside Milkshape.


now that I've bought the license for Milkshape, I'm sure I'll be pestering you for information on a regular basis. Thanks for the insights youv'e provided already.
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11/08/2016 03:02:13

Rocque
Rocque
Posts: 359
Congrats on the purchases Pat. The HD sounds nice. Is it external? Also the Milkshape sounds worth it so maybe in 6 months or so you can help me use it. Keep us informed of your progress.
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11/08/2016 03:22:20

PatMarrNCMuvizu mogul
PatMarrNC
Posts: 1738
Rocque wrote:
Congrats on the purchases Pat. The HD sounds nice. Is it external?


it's internal. I opened my computer to see if I had any more RAM slots, and when I saw all those empty bays I knew there should be at least another hard drive. Next purchase will be a GTX 1070 graphics card and power supply.

Also the Milkshape sounds worth it so maybe in 6 months or so you can help me use it. Keep us informed of your progress.


I'm a slow learner ... grew up in the seventies, and I left most of my brain cells there... but I'll be happy to share any knowledge I manage to gain from it. The KEY Thing to know now is that it is one of the few affordable modelling programs that supports BOTH of the file formats that Muvizu can import. Blender is another.. but milkshape has the reputation of being easier to learn than Blender.




-----------------------------------------------------------
edited by PatMarrNC on 11/08/2016
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14/08/2016 22:10:39

primaveranz
primaveranz
Posts: 520
OK had a few more tries with Milkshape-created ASE and FBX files.

I created a cube and a texture with a solid colour area, a semi-transparent area and a completely transparent area. I applied the texture to a material and applied the material to the cube. Then tried 5 variations.

1. Exported in ASE format and chose "map alpha to transparency, single-sided" - RESULT all areas worked as expected but where there was a transparency you could see right through the cube and out the other side (because the cube was single sided).

2. Exported in ASE format and chose "map alpha to transparency, double-sided" - RESULT the entire cube is transparent or semi-transparent (this is where I think a Transparency mask is needed but I can't see anyway to get it in to a Milkshape created ASE.)


3. Exported in FBX - RESULT cannot apply an image inside Muvizu just a colour
4. Exported in FBX then used Autodesk FBX converter to convert to 2012 format. RESULT same as 3.
5. Exported in FBX then used Autodesk FBX converter to convert to 2013 format. RESULT same as 3.


When I talked to support about this a while ago Jamie said that the FBX file I sent him had no material assigned, so somehow that is being lost in the Milkshape export and is not fixed by converting to a later FBX format. Maybe I need to talk to the the Milkshape developer because Milkshape could open up prop creation to all those people who find the Blender learning curve too time-consuming for their purposes.
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14/08/2016 23:02:30

Rocque
Rocque
Posts: 359
Thank you again everyone who is being so persistent in their search for adding to what we can accomplish using Muvizu. I am adding encouragement to keep on testing and retesting because several of us who are not at that stage appreciate what you are doing.
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14/08/2016 23:38:07

RodrisilvaMuvizu mogulExperimental user
Rodrisilva
Posts: 113
primaveranz wrote:
OK had a few more tries with Milkshape-created ASE and FBX files.

...
When I talked to support about this a while ago Jamie said that the FBX file I sent him had no material assigned, so somehow that is being lost in the Milkshape export and is not fixed by converting to a later FBX format. Maybe I need to talk to the the Milkshape developer because Milkshape could open up prop creation to all those people who find the Blender learning curve too time-consuming for their purposes.



Hi primaveranz

I put my eyes on Milkshape some time ago and I understand it has some advantages converting many formats.
To be sincere Blender is not so hard to learn like it seams. Last versions are more user friendly and if you only need to export to fbx with assigned transparency and face smoothing the last exporter plugin does a perfect job. Steps to do that are easy if you search instructs among many youtube videos devoted to blender fbx export.
If I had more time available I could make a tutorial about. May be some day...
Meanwhile I attach some pictures where you can appreciate models with double layer transparency made in Blender and imported to Muvizu. You can play with transparency and add normal maps to any model. If you have time, you can make animated normal map like I did in this scene and change normal map texture for animated map. Playing with lights is possible inside Muvizu to simulated relief on flat surfaces.




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14/08/2016 23:41:54

RodrisilvaMuvizu mogulExperimental user
Rodrisilva
Posts: 113
More pictures with assigned transparency and animation fbx objects


and more


give a eye on
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15/08/2016 00:19:29

ziggy72Muvizu mogulExperimental user
ziggy72
Posts: 1988
Very very nice job Rodrisilva - great use of textures, as well as the transparencies.
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15/08/2016 00:23:27

primaveranz
primaveranz
Posts: 520
Yeah that is professional standard Rodrisilva
I suppose I will give Blender yet another look, but to be honest I have wasted so much time with it in the past I find it hard to get up enthusiasm for its arcane and unforgiving UI
edited by primaveranz on 15/08/2016
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15/08/2016 14:29:45

Rocque
Rocque
Posts: 359
Rodrisilva, that is great! It is a beautiful scene. Adding the car to it was incredible. Awesome work there. I just subscribed to your YouTube channel. Your animations deserve a lot more views than they receive. I hope more on this site will support everyone's contributions to YT by leaving comments and sharing.
edited by Rocque on 15/08/2016
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Home ? How Do I ...? ? Assigna Material for an imported FBX prop.