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21/02/2011 09:13:24

inlimbo
inlimbo
Posts: 70
Muvizu,

This is a carry over from the actions thread. Since being able to pick up and set down props is a ways off, can Muvizu have a temporary yet effective solution similar to Musical instruments? I'm not saying the instruments aren't useful, but it's such a narrow focus, with a few prop animations you could help a lot of people tell stories in a variety of genres.

Just like the guitar prop, the drum prop, and all musical instruments, can you create animations with a few basic props?

These are just what comes to mind as being useful across the board: a box, a pen, a cellphone, a mug, and a ball.

Thanks,
inLimbo


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edited by inlimbo on 21/02/2011
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25/02/2011 02:02:23

inlimbo
inlimbo
Posts: 70
Hello there Muvizu,

Just checking in to see if you have considered what I've proposed.

I know all of us are like cats on your back porch meowing to be fed, but....what do you think about a few basic prop animations to hold us over until you get true prop interaction going?
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25/02/2011 11:32:57

barrys
barrys
Posts: 102
Hi inlimbo

It's a good idea to have some stand-in props to tide people over. It's an idea that's floated around the team for a while now. When we're deciding what features to include in a Release there is usually a 4-way discussion that takes account of:

A feature's commercial benefits, i.e. the business case for doing it
Useability
Code's resources
Art's resources

Some suggestions on the forum are quick and easy to do but yours is a big request involving Modellers, Animators and developers and we need to think about it thoroughly. You can feel reassured that this idea, and every other one we receive DOES make it onto our big wish list, honestly. Bear with us and keep the ideas coming...

Barry
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26/02/2011 01:00:11

inlimbo
inlimbo
Posts: 70
Thanks for your input Barry! I do understand that you weigh updates as far as their commercial value. The only thing I can do is stump in favor of prop handling, whether it is a temporary solution or the final of picking things up.

The ability to show scenes where characters handle props will expand the types of stories that can be told with Muvizu. Expanding the types of stories expands the user base which expands the viewing base.

I would say the top 2 things left for Muvizu to really compete with MovieTempest and sighClone is better facial animation and prop handling. At that point things will really open up. Since there already is basic facial animation then prop handling or the simulation of prop handling is really number 1 if you think about it.

note: I don't know about code's resources, but if you only did 1 animation with each prop and had like 4 basic props that had basic shapes to them, then Art's resources would not be drained too much.

That's my rant!
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09/05/2011 18:19:15

inlimbo
inlimbo
Posts: 70
Hello Barry and all of Muvizu Team,

Just following up on this one. There are a lot of stories that can't easily be told without handling props, and would suffer from a filmmaker's attempts to fake it. When you are done with the engine update, please let me know where do you see it on your long list?

I've probably mentioned before that both iClown and MovieTempest handle props. There are lots of people who may not attempt to use your software because of this one issue.

The more people who use your software, the more innovation and good films begin to rise to the surface and the more recognition Muvizu has.

I'm ranting again, but for a good cause: Muvizu. The longer Muvizu is without this feature, the more we have to rely on dialogue to drive stories, and iClown users will likely stay put.

Thanks.

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edited by inlimbo on 09/05/2011
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09/05/2011 23:51:54

DanimalMuvizu mogulExperimental user
Danimal
Posts: 477
inlimbo wrote:
I'm ranting again, but for a good cause: Muvizu.


Well said. I'm sure that changing the modeling would be a massive undertaking but invariably the greatest addition to the program. Custom textures, and certain movements, and even a "netural mood" would all be fabulous. But a few simple items that a character can hold would make me do backflips just before going to the hospital for all the injuries I'd sustain by doing backflips. There's several movements like firing a gun... yet no gun. Or writing at a desk, yet no pen. This realyl would help tremendously.
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10/05/2011 09:40:43

freakmoomin
freakmoomin
Posts: 272
We all agree here at Muvizu and its something we all really want aswell.

As barry mentioned above its a task which involves the whole pipeline making it harder to implement than other features.

We could maybe shoehorn in a quick fix which isnt vert good but we really want to do features like this properly hence the reason its still not here

But its 100% on the radar....
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10/05/2011 10:19:39

toonaramaMuvizu mogulExperimental user
toonarama
Posts: 661
Could this not be partially implemented by having things like phones/guns/pens as accessories like the microphone.
Obviously this will mean that they were attached throughout the scene being recorded but i don't see this as I imagine most people could get round this by either post processing or (if not owned) recording the scene in "bits" (ie sometimes with and sometimes without attached accessory) and joining with the Videojoiner.
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16/05/2011 18:05:23

inlimbo
inlimbo
Posts: 70
Another thought on temporary solutions to handling PrOps: Why not create the ability to reposition wrist accessories? (and make some of those accessories a pen, a mug, a ball, and yes a gun.)

In one movie I made a blue tooth by repositioning a mustache, a monocle, and a mystery item to the character's ear.

What if there were wrist accessories that could be repositioned to the palm and would follow along with the character's animations and hand gestures? If there were enough "GRIP" poses and animations (and there are some) then stuff might be able to sim prop usage.

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edited by inlimbo on 16/05/2011
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18/05/2011 21:52:22

inlimbo
inlimbo
Posts: 70
So how about it Muvizu?! Can we get wrist accessories as a temporary solution to prop handling?

We could have a flashlight, a cup, a small ball, a gun, a book, and a pen (maybe a key, a coin, and a knife too) as wrist accessories with movable and rotatable attributes, so we could reposition them to the palm. This would cover a few situations and increase the types of stories told.

To make it even more interesting, and a little further down the road, you could give both accessories AND objects a visibility attribute.

This is the way props are sometimes done in Maya, like when a ball is thrown. A sphere is attached to the palm, and when the character throws and releases it, the ball's visibility is set to 0 in the time line. Then a second ball, an object not attached the character, has its visibility brought up to 1 from 0, and the ball is then animated in the air.
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18/05/2011 22:12:16

ziggy72Muvizu mogulExperimental user
ziggy72
Posts: 1988
@ InLimbo - I like the way you think! A wrist accessory shaped like a gun or a phone would be sooooooo good, and open up all kinds of stories that just aren't currently possible. It seems like such a simple solution too - am I wrong? Are the bandages, bracelets and cuffs really all that difficult to code? We should be told!
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18/05/2011 23:13:18

mystoMuvizu mogulExperimental user
mysto
Posts: 471
What He Saidi agree
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19/05/2011 04:54:25

inlimbo
inlimbo
Posts: 70
Thx Ziggy/Mysto. Excited to see if wrist accessories for props is something Muvizu can get behind.
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20/05/2011 15:44:53

bigwallyMuvizu mogulExperimental user
bigwally
Posts: 400
inlimbo wrote:
Thx Ziggy/Mysto. Excited to see if wrist accessories for props is something Muvizu can get behind.


I love your idea. I thought I could get away with not using props in my latest, but that was impossible (holding papers, guns, pickles, etc.) So, I fudged it using images on floating backgrounds. Very tedious to do. Something like you've proposed would be very "do-able".
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20/05/2011 17:18:42

DanimalMuvizu mogulExperimental user
Danimal
Posts: 477
bigwally wrote:
images on floating backgrounds. Very tedious to do.


This is something of an understatement.

Being an optimist, I'm putting two things together here: the Muvizu devs' curious lack of a reply to the thread, even if only to tell us to shut up, and the fact that the little teaser video for the new version mentioned tons of new accessories. I'm hoping perhaps this very feature is already sketchily implemented and they're just waiting to tell us? Maybe? Possibly?
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23/05/2011 13:25:37

toonaramaMuvizu mogulExperimental user
toonarama
Posts: 661
Danimal wrote:
Being an optimist, I'm putting two things together here: the Muvizu devs' curious lack of a reply to the thread, even if only to tell us to shut up, and the fact that the little teaser video for the new version mentioned tons of new accessories. I'm hoping perhaps this very feature is already sketchily implemented and they're just waiting to tell us? Maybe? Possibly?

I think the silence will be more to do with "all hands to the pump" ensuring the latest release is ready soon
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23/05/2011 14:09:36

NeilExperimental userMuvizu staff
Neil
Posts: 396
toonarama wrote:
I think the silence will be more to do with "all hands to the pump" ensuring the latest release is ready soon

This. Plus, Barry already summed it up neatly.
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23/05/2011 15:13:51

DanimalMuvizu mogulExperimental user
Danimal
Posts: 477
Proving once again... optimism is always bad.
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23/05/2011 18:27:45

inlimbo
inlimbo
Posts: 70
Thanks Neil 4 ur post! I do wish to make clear though that what Barry addressed was my initial post. My latest suggestion is an even more temporary workaround, and while not super easy, has got to be easier than the initial posts.

Hand Props SMUGGLED in as Wrist Accessories...It's a cheat...a work around...it's different. As long as we can rotate and move them to the palm like head accessories...it works.

I realize your brave men and women are cranking away, and thanks for that, but please take the time to give your feedback on this new variant of prOp Solutions. Also, Dreeko...what do you think?

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edited by inlimbo on 23/05/2011
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23/05/2011 21:54:22

NeilExperimental userMuvizu staff
Neil
Posts: 396
I appreciate that, inlimbo. However, the problem with anything temporary in Muvizu is that it's never actually temporary. We'd not only have to develop the temporary workaround (which is no less work than doing it properly), but then we'd have to maintain that workaround forever so that sets that were saved with the workaround in place would still work correctly with later releases.

I'm sorry, but you're just going have to be patient with us. I know you're desperate for this feature and it's something we really do want to add to Muvizu, but it's important enough that we want to do it properly, not just fudge it in. The sad fact is that we simply don't have the resources for it at the moment. If you've ever seen Dreeko's video of our office with the enormous ToDo board and Dave's desk on fire, it really isn't very far from the truth.
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