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30/03/2011 04:20:54

Goatboy
Goatboy
Posts: 3
(I searched a lot but I am still not completely sure that this is the right place to post, please forgive me if it is misplaced)

-- Unavoidable introduction Big Grin
I downloaded Muvizu yesterday and lo and behold its a miracle While browsing forum for some of initial problems and questions I got amazed again seeing how great bunch you are. I really admire your attitude toward your own work and this community. You are pleasant and amiable yet with integrity and obviously have a vision. Authentic in one word. Money cannot buy those things. It is my humble opinion that you can change things big time if you persist in long term. (I know this might sound sappy but it is from my bad English speaking heart)
---

Whole day I played around with a single scene. There were problems but as I watched almost all tutorials I got through and made a scene for my pilot project. Everything is great and very promising.
On camera animation I started pulling my hear after few attempts. I know its beta, I red that camera animation is relatively new etc. I simply failed to animate camera as I need for too many times either with mouse or keyboard. I know it is possible (theoretically) to do exactly what I want but its frustrating to high heaven. And for just one camera move. In a relatively small piece of space and time I need to smoothly move and rotate camera (rotate gently along two axis).

Hopefully this is enough to understand what I had problem with. Can we expect to see some more precise camera animation that is not necessarily depending on our arcade reflexes? Like for example: Allowing us to set camera positions on two neighboring cue points and telling Muvizu to interpolate or something similar.

While writing this I am fairly sure that such thing doesnt exist. Please correct me if I am wrong. If it doesnt exist, what would be your opinion about such (optional) camera management?

Thanks for attention and Muvizu

Scene in progress:

http://img844.imageshack.us/i/bakery2020.png/
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30/03/2011 10:08:01

JamieMuvizu staff
Jamie
(Account inactive)
Posts: 609
Hi Goatboy,

Its always nice to read such encouraging feedback first thing in the morning!

Cameras: We're looking into a number of improvement to Muvizu as a whole and this could include updates to the camera system, however, no promises at this time. Our main aim is to release the next update to Muvizu which is really just a backend update to the Unreal 3 engine that we use. Once this is out of the way we have a lot of ideas that we'd like to implement.

I do agree with you though, the camera movement system isn't the easiest to use. Personally I've found taking time to practice is the best way to achieve what you want and using the keyboard, I think, produces better and more controlled results. From your description of what your trying to do you probably want to focus on using the arrow keys with the keys to control the roll of the camera. Another tip is - don't worry to much about hitting the exact path you want for your camera movement as long as you record what you want the camera to do you can move the start or end point of the camera into the place where you really want it later on.

Your set looks great by the way, I like the little touch of the chair being upside down. Good luck on finishing your pilot.
edited by Jamie on 30/03/2011

--
Direct, don't animate!
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30/03/2011 11:43:42

Emily
Emily
(Account inactive)
Posts: 346
Hiya Goatboy,

Welcome to Muvizu!

First of all, can I congratulate you on your excellent choice of username
In addition to Jamie's suggestions on camera movement, I can also recommend a little tip: the middle mouse button.

If you want the camera to move forwards/backwards at a steady pace - adjust the movement & smoothness sliders, hit record, then scroll with the middle mouse.

You only need to scroll a little, then the camera will continue, and you can perform other movements at the same time.

Hope that helps, and good luck with your first video!

Emily
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30/03/2011 23:49:17

Goatboy
Goatboy
Posts: 3
Thanks guys
I played a bit today and I am starting to get a feeling of camera animation. It does drag me down compared to all other goodness you made. Middle scroll is a useful tip. I havent thought about it. About camera (and generally object) "tracks" I noticed that stuff and its very handy.

As I am still in suggestion area I would add a few remarks and ideas about general camera functioning. Who knows, maybe something will help to make it as easy and intuitive as the rest of Muvizu.

Previously I mentioned interpolation of camera cue points in space/time. That would be great if possible.
Today I noticed something else. Once I managed to make camera move as I wanted (by chopping complex movement into few simpler moves with cue points), I got a "camera artifact" in time line. By it I mean very short (and unintended) camera event that nested between two well done events. It manifests as noticeable stutter. Deleting it also deleted all camera moves that come afterward. I already saw people talking about this. It might be another argument to implement and treat camera specially. Interpolation of camera cue points would make possible deletion of such "chunks" without messing with anything else. Also, it would be possible to record movements extremely slowly and carefully and then adjust speed of execution by dragging chunk lengths (as it is done with camera cuts).

Another idea is to have camera preparation actions somewhat similar to how it is done with characters moods. There would be two types of camera actions: factory and customizable. Factory actions could be all sorts of stuttering, sin/cos rolling and waving, jumping up down, duck and cover, around corner peeking etc. Customizable actions would require parameters such as your currently implemented "rotation point". By adding such action user would need to select whether reference point is relative (to parent or some other object) or absolute, how fast or smooth it works etc.. further details could be thought out.

Here is a simple example of what would be possible and much less frustrating.
We want to follow moving target in a huge arc and simultaneously zoom in. We need to prepare two actions for camera: zoom-in (with speed as only parameter) and customizable rotation (with reference point set as relative to other object (target), speed, clockwise/counter-clo.) Now when I think again about it, camera actions would more likely work as "states" meaning that more than one could be active at the same time. When recording starts, we turn custom rotation state on and zoom state as planned. This would be pretty hard to do precisely even once moving camera directly. Whats best, even if we are forced to change things in scene taking this shot again with changed positions would be trivial. Or imagine a camera that is out pacing moving character while its focus is on him/her. With camera states you would need customizable "translate" (to absolute point) and factory "lock focus" (on object).

It might sound hard but I believe that flexible/precise/comfortable use of camera is crucial foundation for future development and success. After all, its just a suggestion to make Muvizu better. I am sure you have plenty of surprises coming.

If any clarification is needed please tell me.
edited by Goatboy on 30/03/2011
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30/03/2011 23:57:21

pyrrho
pyrrho
Posts: 123
Wow, just wow, man. My head's full. I am sure, however, that your excellent post will elicit cogent comment from people who didn't try to look at it all at once.

Many thanks,

vince
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31/03/2011 11:17:23

mcmillan-raExperimental userMuvizu staff
mcmillan-ra
Posts: 164
Hello Goatboy,

Thanks for the suggestions. We are aware there are problems with moving of objects, cameras and characters, and it is something we will address in the future. Waypoints (your first suggestion) is, I think, probably the most requested solution to it.

I can't say what the final solution will be or when you will be able to use it. However, we'll probably start looking at the control issues once the next release is out.
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31/03/2011 21:07:53

DreekoMuvizu mogulExperimental user
Dreeko
Posts: 1258
mcmillan-ra wrote:
I can't say what the final solution will be or when you will be able to use it. However, we'll probably start looking at the control issues once the next release is out.


Can't wait to see what you guys come up with, out of all the suggestions that have been chucked at you!
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