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06/04/2014 01:04:51

LugofilmLtd
LugofilmLtd
Posts: 74
Hey everyone! I'm back! After a longer-than-intended break to deal with some personal issues, I've started work on my next project, an homage to the old cliffhanger serials and I was hoping someone here could answer me something. If a film is in the public domain, does that mean the music from that film is also in the public domain or are music rights separate? I ask because, assuming I can find any, I would like to use actual music from actual serials to make the tribute complete but I'm not sure if I'm allowed. Does anybody know?
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07/04/2014 04:37:15

MarkWaldo
MarkWaldo
Posts: 31
LugofilmLtd wrote:
Hey everyone! I'm back! After a longer-than-intended break to deal with some personal issues, I've started work on my next project, an homage to the old cliffhanger serials and I was hoping someone here could answer me something. If a film is in the public domain, does that mean the music from that film is also in the public domain or are music rights separate? I ask because, assuming I can find any, I would like to use actual music from actual serials to make the tribute complete but I'm not sure if I'm allowed. Does anybody know?


It depends on if the music from the show came out separately on some type of medium (vinyl, tape or CD). If that is the case, the copyright on the music will last 99 years from the time of release. You can easily check this. Just post a temporary video on youtube with the music on it. If someone has copyrighted it, it will be flagged as a possible copyright violation. Look at that message and go to the website of the company that is claiming a copyright on the music. You can then ask permission to use it without paying a royalty. It depends on the company whether they will allow you to use it in your production. Otherwise, it can cost $200 or more per production. If you don't get a message of possible copyright violation, then it is ok to use as it is most probably in the public domain. If youtube flags the video, take it off before the copyright holder notifies you to take it off. You can get in trouble with youtube if they catch you with copyright violations where the copyright holder has warned you specifically.
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07/04/2014 13:10:12

LugofilmLtd
LugofilmLtd
Posts: 74
Thanks, that answers my question. 99 years, huh? Can you get any more ridiculous? Oh well, I'm sure I can find some suitable creative commons music but it just won't be the same. Damn copyright Nazis.
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07/04/2014 18:13:59

urbanlamb
urbanlamb
(Account inactive)
Posts: 1796
errm music isnt always 99 years it depends on the music and if the copyright holder filed for it. If the film is marked "public domain" then it really is public domain. You will have trouble on youtube because eleventy seven small potatoes music companies will have purchased said music and fed it through the content ID system in order to make money off it, but that doesnt mean the music is still being held as copyright.

You can dispute it and often the dispute is dropped unless Sony gets their hands in the pile (which they will sorry sony but when it comes to music you sucks..) in which case they automatically reject all claims and you must challenge them to prove they hold the copyright (which if its public domain they dont) and then they will actually watch the video and drop the match,

but .. it will get matched again right away so its kind of a loosing battle.

You will be working 24/7 hold back the youtube bots.. so if you want to do something like that post it on another host. My personal favourite is dailymotion.



So this 99 year thing only applies to people who have actively gone out and copyrighted the music again which is rare and its usually a surviving relative that does this and often they dont do it.. However if its clearly marked public domain eg: a truly public domain video (and yes there are lots of them especially foreign films) everything in it is public domain otherwise it would not hold the public domain sticker. Do your research thoroughly though and check with the governing bodies that hold such info dont just check a wiki or something. I use a couple of accredited content providers (even if i dont use their stuff) however they do the research and have all the bits of paper to prove something is public domain or not and so if they say its public domain it really is. One of them if fesfilms. He has a commercial division and the owner and proprietor is a nice guy I have spoken to him several times and even purchased a couple of hard to find things just for watching. I tend to use public domain dialogue a lot and one of the projects on my back burners is a remake of a public domain film using some of the sound and whatnot from the film. To try to make it as campy and cheesy as possible (I love cheesy campy tacky B stuff) .
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07/04/2014 19:37:44

MarkWaldo
MarkWaldo
Posts: 31
Urbanlamb,
I went to fesfilms's website and found the "One Step Beyond" TV series to be in the public domain. When I attempted to use its music, I was told by APM that it is copyrighted and that I had to pay $200 for each use. However, he allowed me to use it for free if I mentioned APM in the credits, specifying the exact soundtrack they sell the license for. The music from the series was put on a vinyl record in 1960 and BMI insists that they are the ones that own the copyright and that it is administered by APM. But APM's music is digital, not analog, and it comes on 2 CDs. Though the music is identical, it was compiled digitally. My music is from the vinyl recording which someone on youtube has had for over 2 years without challenge. I've noticed the same album from at least 2 other people that have had it on youtube for a long period of time unchallenged. You said in your response that sometimes people claim a copyright when they have no grounds for it, for the purpose of extracting money out of people. My question is, how can the TV series be public domain and the music it contains be copyrighted by someone else? I realize you're not a copyright lawyer, but can you shed some light on this?
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07/04/2014 21:00:26

urbanlamb
urbanlamb
(Account inactive)
Posts: 1796
If your using it from a vinyl recording I can tell you right now a record company has in fact extended the rights to it and he is in the right and clear. If I can find a tie to a record company yes they have gone to the library of congress and extended the copyright to 99 years.

The TV series and the recording in that series is in fact public domain yes. Your going to have an uphill battle that is not worth your time because the youtube bot system can't tell the difference. Put the video on some other hosting service and save yourself some anguish and frustration.

the general rule of thumb for music in the public domain is yes they have released it to the public domain but your going to have companies come after you if you try to gain financially from it because somewhere there is a recording on vinyl so its okay to use the music free and clear and have no worries its public domain so long as you do not try to benefit from it and make money off it then yes capitol records (the main one that holds 99.99999% of vinyl rights and has relicensed) will come after you for it.

I dont know if that makes any sense but you have to spend a lot of time navigating capitol records and reading all that stuff that goes with it I have a lot of public domain recordings that capitol picked up rights for and extended for VINYL stuff.

The youtube content ID system does not really have a whole lot to do with copyright lol it has to do with making money lol. All these matches people are upset about are some 3rd party entity claiming it. Regardless of where your particular recording is from. :/

Anyhow personally I would not place that on youtube your going to have multiple claims from multiple entities all the times. Its not worth the trouble or time to be bothered with it. But then again I am not giving you advice I only have spent a very very long time figuring out the youtube content id bot system because this sort of stuff interests me. So yes they are picking up the recording and wanting to make money off it even though its not their recording or the ones they have preserved but another recording. Its up to you what you want to do with it, but no they do not own the copyright


here this sort of explains it but public domain usually means "creative commons non commercial"
http://www.publicdomainsherpa.com/public-domain-recordings.html

so your recording is in fact public domain but dont try to make money off it because someone will come after you with guns a blazing!

here is info its accurate from what I can tell on how certain recordings are in public domain
http://www.radiolovers.com/copyrights.html

again there are tons of companies that claim copyright to stuff that is in public domain. They are bigger then you are you can fight with them if you so wish to, but its not worth it to be bothered.
edited by urbanlamb on 08/04/2014
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08/04/2014 20:54:46

MarkWaldo
MarkWaldo
Posts: 31
Thanks, Urbanlamb. That clears up about everything I can imagine about the use of music. At least I can use one resource I have, Vidoblocks, to use whatever clips of video or music they have in any of my productions, whether for profit or not. They license their members to use their royalty free material without any problems whatsoever. Unfortunately, most of their music is done on a syntehsizer alone and is not of high quality as far as music composition is concerned. Once again, thanks for your information.
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08/04/2014 21:07:31

LugofilmLtd
LugofilmLtd
Posts: 74
What about old stock music from the 60s or earlier? I found several collections of such and it doesn't seem like it would still be under copyright since it was never officially released to the public on an album so I should be able to use it, yes?
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08/04/2014 21:27:23

bigwallyMuvizu mogulExperimental user
bigwally
Posts: 389
LugofilmLtd wrote:
What about old stock music from the 60s or earlier? I found several collections of such and it doesn't seem like it would still be under copyright since it was never officially released to the public on an album so I should be able to use it, yes?


Probably still under copyright protection. I ran across a bunch of stock music that was used for the old "Ren & Stimpy" show and tried to research their status. The ones I was able to find, were still under copyright. Since John K. (the creator of "R&S") is notoriously cheap when it comes to using music, he sticks to PD and really, really cheap stock music (mostly from the 50's & 60's). Probably bought the rights en mass. Cheap, but still copyrighted.


edited by bigwally on 08/04/2014
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09/04/2014 00:57:57

urbanlamb
urbanlamb
(Account inactive)
Posts: 1796
yeah you have to research each case individually and be very very sure. Really in the end though if your just using it to make a video and not worried about someone slapping ads on it then just ignore the content id matches. I am fussy though if its a fraudulent match it makes me cranky I dont mind actual legitimate matches but I get cranky if i am continually dinged with fraudulent matches and tend just to pull the video down.
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09/04/2014 09:02:57

LugofilmLtd
LugofilmLtd
Posts: 74
Thanks for the info. But wouldn't you know it, minutes after my last post, my hard drive crashed and all indications are that it is completely dead, necessitating buying a new one, which I may not be able to do for months due to having no money at present. Sigh. I was going to try and have something finished for a local film festival this year in hopes of being noticed and hopefully being offered a job at an animation studio somewhere since there are representatives from Hollywood who go to this festival every year, but it looks like I'll have to wait a whole 'nother year and try for the next one. Major bummer.

Posted from my mom's computer.
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09/07/2014 17:35:38

illusions
illusions
Posts: 4
I was on Micro Soft Movie Maker and it had a link to a site
http://freemusicarchive.org/curator/video?wlexpid=4DD62692F716489B9B0A3874C53CE3CC&wlrefapp=5
its not my site i have no affiliation just thought it may help people here.



A Creative Commons license

Attribution Only
Attribution-ShareAlike
Attribution-NoDerivatives
Attribution-NonCommercial
Attribution-NonCommercial ShareAlike
Attribution-NonCommercial NoDerivatives

Public Domain
Allows for commercial use
Allows for use in a remix or video
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