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Home ? Collaboration Requests ? what is the acceptable rate?

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22/01/2014 11:10:16

ninamag
ninamag
Posts: 27
what is the acceptable rate for a one-minute animation output of the highest quality, inclusive of set-up, characters, etc..?
i want to hire a muvizu animator for an on-going animation project, and therefore, i would like to know how much the reasonable or acceptable charge is?

ninamag gmail.com
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22/01/2014 19:47:40

ziggy72Muvizu mogulExperimental user
ziggy72
Posts: 1988
There is no agreed rate for these things in Muvizu. Also, you posted earlier on about an 'exclusive' toilet set? There is a toilet in Muvizu already - do you need a specific one? The idea of any part of Muvizu being 'exclusive' is kind of hard to make happen, since anyone could, if they wanted to, replicate your sets/characters/etc. Perhaps you'd be better asking a Muvizuer directly for help (whoever's style would fit with what you're after) and then negotiate with them. Muvizu is mostly about having fun with animation, not making a business out of it (for 99% of users anyway).
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22/01/2014 19:53:04

ninamag
ninamag
Posts: 27
ziggy72 wrote:
There is no agreed rate for these things in Muvizu. Also, you posted earlier on about an 'exclusive' toilet set? There is a toilet in Muvizu already - do you need a specific one? The idea of any part of Muvizu being 'exclusive' is kind of hard to make happen, since anyone could, if they wanted to, replicate your sets/characters/etc. Perhaps you'd be better asking a Muvizuer directly for help (whoever's style would fit with what you're after) and then negotiate with them. Muvizu is mostly about having fun with animation, not making a business out of it (for 99% of users anyway).



thanks for the comments. i understand anyone could ... replicate the sets, etc..., but there is something about being the first one to create such.
about the toilet seat, the photo that i showed was a communial toilet set, more than one toilet in one cubicle. really muvizu has this already. i missed that.

you wrote, "ask ... a Muvizuer directly for help (whoever's style would fit with what you're after) and then negotiate with them."
my answer; so, if i was negotiating with you, what are your rates?
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23/01/2014 02:17:34

primaveranz
primaveranz
Posts: 524
ninamag wrote:
so, if i was negotiating with you, what are your rates?


Why not submit a selection of your previous scripts and make an offer so Muvizuers can decide if you have the required writing skills and that it's worth their while?
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23/01/2014 03:57:37

fazz68
fazz68
(Account inactive)
Posts: 767
really!! is everything about money?
you do know that if had you come into this community and gotten to know people before bombarding them with all this you might have gotten them to help you out for nothing. can i buy this can i buy that blah blah blah. you might get someone to help you at the price you want... £10 for a minutes output of video.. do you know how much work can go into a minute of video. it could take days if not longer to get a really good minutes video out of someone. i could earn more scrubbing the bogs out in McDonalds Big Grin . ta ta
@primaverantz thats not aimed at you mate
edited by fazz68 on 23/01/2014
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25/01/2014 21:20:28

ninamag
ninamag
Posts: 27
fazz68 wrote:
really!! is everything about money?
you do know that if had you come into this community and gotten to know people before bombarding them with all this you might have gotten them to help you out for nothing. can i buy this can i buy that blah blah blah. you might get someone to help you at the price you want... £10 for a minutes output of video.. do you know how much work can go into a minute of video. it could take days if not longer to get a really good minutes video out of someone. i could earn more scrubbing the bogs out in McDonalds Big Grin . ta ta
@primaverantz thats not aimed at you mate
edited by fazz68 on 23/01/2014




I hope that my response would present a contrast to the tone of your comment.
Even though you don’t know me, you have disrespected me by your hatred of some sort, and I do not believe I deserve your venomous and uncivilized outburst, whoever you might be.
I thank God, however, that you are, apparently, not a part of the staff of Muvizu; otherwise I believe the Muvizu stock would plummet a million miles with the likes of your demeanour.
I don’t know you, and yet I show respect to you, through my line-by-line answer below:

You (fazz68) wrote, “really!! is everything about money?”

My response:
I do not presume to read your motive. Therefore pick and choose which of the answers below matches the point you believe you are making (and please react accordingly but in a civilized manner):

A. Muvizu is both a free product and a for-sale product. Are you upset that Muvizu has a for-sale version?

B. Muvizu has four marketing strategies. They are, according to muvizu.com (even as of today’s date): Education, Animators, Business ("make it easy for you to earn money from your animation."), and Storytellers. Are you upset that Muvizu has this money-making scheme?

C. In my neck of the woods, I currently fit three of these Muvizu marketing goals: I am an Educator, in Business and a Storyteller. Since I don’t believe in getting anything for nothing, without even trying out the free version, I immediately bought the for-sale edition of Muvizu. Are you upset that I bought the Muvizu for-sale version?

D. Are you upset that I believe in paying people for their efforts?

+

You (fazz68) wrote, “you do know that if had you come into this community and gotten to know people before bombarding them with all this you might have gotten them to help you out for nothing.”

My response:
I do not presume to read your motive. Therefore pick and choose which of the answers below matches the point you believe you are making (and please react accordingly but in a civilized manner):

A. Where do you get your know-it-all presumption that nobody in this community is helping me, regardless of “for nothing” or for something?

B. Why are you obsessed about receiving something “for nothing”, and at the same time make a hint that you want more money for your efforts?

C. For your information, I communicated via email with a personnel and asked if I could put such and such in the forum, and I received a green light for it. Do you think I did not ask the community beforehand whether I could put something in the forum or not?

+

You (fazz68) wrote, “can i buy this can i buy that blah blah blah.”

My response:
I do not presume to read your motive. Therefore pick and choose which of the answers below matches the point you believe you are making (and please react accordingly but in a civilized manner):

A. Do you prefer that people pirate the for-sale version of Muvizu?

B. Do you prefer that people do not offer or should never offer money for people’s work?

+

You (fazz68) wrote, “do you know how much work can go into a minute of video. it could take days if not longer to get a really good minutes video out of someone.”

My response:
I do not presume to read your motive. Therefore pick and choose which of the answers below matches the point you believe you are making (and please react accordingly but in a civilized manner):

A. Do you know how much work can go into a minute of script-writing? It could take days if not longer to get a really good minute … of script-writing out of someone.
And yet lots of script-writers would die to get paid ten quid per minute output for such work. I know. I also charge up to such an amount for script-writing, and believe me, ten quid per minute output in script-writing is a lot of money for a lot of people. You must own half of Derbyshire, mate, to look down on such an amount.
The script is the foundation of any movie, and yet hundreds of script-writers like me would even lower our price of ten quid per minute output, just to earn some money.

B. Do you know how much work can go into a minute of song-writing? It could take days if not longer to get a really good minute … of song-writing out of someone.
And yet lots of song-writers would die to get paid ten quid per minute output for such a work. I know, I also charge up to such an amount for song-writing, and believe me, ten quid per minute output in song-writing is a lot of money for a lot of people. You must own half of Derbyshire, mate, to look down on such an amount.
There are some movies that have no script, but music or song. In such cases, the music or song is the foundation of such a movie, and yet hundreds of song-writers like me would even lower our price of ten quid per minute output, just to earn some money.

C. Have you researched who else earns in the equivalent of “ten quid per minute output” in this industry? (I know some video producers who do, and I am one of them.) Don’t you know that more than half the world is in recession, and “ten quid per minute output” is not an unreasonable amount? Nevertheless, a response as to one’s prepared rate would have been more civilized than an unschooled rant.

+

You (fazz68) wrote, “i could earn more scrubbing the bogs out in McDonalds . ta ta"

My response:
I do not presume to read your motive. Therefore pick and choose which of the answers below matches the point you believe you are making (and please react accordingly but in a civilized manner):

A. Some people in this forum, including some in my family, have worked in fast food restaurants, scrubbing the bogs. There is nothing wrong with it, mate. Neither is it right to demean such a job.

B. Why do you look down on those who “scrub… the bogs out in McDonalds”? At least some of them have better manners than you. “ta ta”
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25/01/2014 21:54:05

urbanlamb
urbanlamb
(Account inactive)
Posts: 1796
I think you will find some of the users here are frustrated because your bugging them a lot. They give you an answer and your not accepting the answer or understanding. This is a very small community of users and your asking for things to exclusive rights over things among other things that really they dont want to give you.

You have posted so many posts asking for help and to pay people and then if they reply to the post you message them as well. So I will give you a figure which is somewhat accurate if i were to place a dollar sign on what is done in this software or other software because we must make assets and textures and even with muvizu take time to set up the animation and then we might have to edit said animation to create the desired effects its hours upon hours of work and people here do it out of love for the medium and dont want it to become work. That being said I think that an opening bid would be an hourly rate of about 40-50 usd per hour minimum to take into account the range of skills that might be needed from asset creation to video compositing and editing skills.

Add to that your also asking for rights to things which they cannot give rights to because its not theirs to give your frustrating a lot of people. Again I suggest instead of taking this approach that you settle down and learn how to use muvizu yourself. Your offering a price on something as if they massed produced it and are selling more then one copy not a price for exclusivity. This is what is bothering them they if they were needing to earn money would in fact earn it with greater ease and faster working at macdonalds in an evening. For all you know fazz might actually work scrubbing bogs at macdonalds. He is simply saying he could make more money doing that and its probably easier and quicker then to slave away for several weeks for 10 pounds which is what you can earn in 1 hour at macdonalds.

Anyhow I would suggest you change your approach you have been asking people to be specific about distribution rights we have tried to answer in the end though most of what is up in the gallery is so common that you can get it anywhere. As for the animations they are a labour of love and for most of the creators you have asked pretty much priceless. If you have a project in mind plan it out post on the collaborations forum and wait. However you have asked in about 10 different ways so far the same thing. You have your answers your just not accepting the information.

this is not a sign to message anyone of the people you have asked or myself to ask if we wuold do the work. I can pretty much predict that they will say no for various reasons. Post and they will message you or reply in a positive manner in the thread. What your doing is trying to convince people who have said no to change their minds. I dont think they will be doing so and I think some are feeling well badgered.
edited by urbanlamb on 25/01/2014
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25/01/2014 22:00:30

ninamag
ninamag
Posts: 27
urbanlamb wrote:
I think you will find some of the users here are frustrated because your bugging them a lot. They give you an answer and your not accepting the answer or understanding.
edited by urbanlamb on 25/01/2014



to all the things that you said, i understand, but to make this comment suggests that you know who and how many i contacted. i contacted less than five people in regards to the topic you are mentioning, and even then, this is not out of line, is it?
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25/01/2014 22:09:44

urbanlamb
urbanlamb
(Account inactive)
Posts: 1796
ninamag wrote:
urbanlamb wrote:
I think you will find some of the users here are frustrated because your bugging them a lot. They give you an answer and your not accepting the answer or understanding.
edited by urbanlamb on 25/01/2014



to all the things that you said, i understand, but to make this comment suggests that you know who and how many i contacted. i contacted less than five people in regards to the topic you are mentioning, and even then, this is not out of line, is it?


5 people is pretty much the entire community anyhow he is frustrated as is at least one more that I know of. Its the fact you posted on the forum they replied and then you contacted them privately. They read the posts and didnt answer or message this means they were not interested,but tried to reply to the questions on the board giving various reasons and still you are repeating yourself after they answered you. This is what someone does when they are trying to get someone to change their minds. Its well pushy its like the salesman that sticks his foot in the door when you want to shut it to prevent you from shutting it.

They have a choice to make are they gonna break your foot or sit there and listen with the door open or yell at you. Your not giving people a lot of choices.
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25/01/2014 22:13:05

ninamag
ninamag
Posts: 27
urbanlamb wrote:
ninamag wrote:
urbanlamb wrote:
I think you will find some of the users here are frustrated because your bugging them a lot. They give you an answer and your not accepting the answer or understanding.
edited by urbanlamb on 25/01/2014



to all the things that you said, i understand, but to make this comment suggests that you know who and how many i contacted. i contacted less than five people in regards to the topic you are mentioning, and even then, this is not out of line, is it?


5 people is pretty much the entire community anyhow he is frustrated as is at least one more that I know of. Its the fact you posted on the forum they replied and then you contacted them privately. They read the posts and didnt answer or message this means they were not interested,but tried to reply to the questions on the board giving various reasons and still you are repeating yourself after they answered you. This is what someone does when they are trying to get someone to change their minds. Its well pushy its like the salesman that sticks his foot in the door when you want to shut it to prevent you from shutting it.

They have a choice to make are they gonna break your foot or sit there and listen with the door open or yell at you. Your not giving people a lot of choices.



if this is a rule you are making, then it should be posted. this is britain, you know. we all live by the rules.
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25/01/2014 22:26:39

ninamag
ninamag
Posts: 27
urbanlamb wrote:
... That being said I think that an opening bid would be an hourly rate of about 40-50 usd per hour minimum to take into account the range of skills that might be needed from asset creation to video compositing and editing skills.
edited by urbanlamb on 25/01/2014



Before i comment, i want to know if i am contextually quoting you correctly, that (you are saying) hiring a muvizu animator should begin in the range of twenty quid per hour? (sorry i don't talk dollars.)
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25/01/2014 22:44:59

urbanlamb
urbanlamb
(Account inactive)
Posts: 1796
1 pounds is about 2.5 canadian dollars so that sounds about right (I guess) but you have messaged people and no one has responded so for now i think your out of luck. I am not american or english i am canadian so I am using USD as a standard. In any event it appears you have no takers you might want to try again in a few weeks but try to remember who said no or did not respond. Your probably best off to learn muvizu and its highly unlikely anyone is going to sell you something they already made.

Your going to need to have a concept planned out clearly so they know what you want and if they can do it. Some muivizuers pay for set assets from other sites, others make their own. Sound is another issue again some pay, some make their own and some have agreements with companies etc. Some of us are better with some types of content then others. I think you will find that anyone who can or is willing to do work commercially will have put up a website link that describes what they will do for money. If they have no internet presence or their website is devoid of commercial information its a pretty good bet they are going to say no or not respond.


Those that do have an internet presence are fairly clear about if they will do something for money and what.


Anyone that has responded to you on forums from what I have seen is not able to help for one reason or another.
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25/01/2014 22:50:34

ninamag
ninamag
Posts: 27
urbanlamb wrote:
1 pounds is about 2.5 canadian dollars so that sounds about right (I guess) but you have messaged people and no one has responded so for now i think your out of luck.



The first part of your comment is promising.
The second part, about "no one has responded" is incorrect.
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25/01/2014 22:59:57

urbanlamb
urbanlamb
(Account inactive)
Posts: 1796
ninamag wrote:
urbanlamb wrote:
1 pounds is about 2.5 canadian dollars so that sounds about right (I guess) but you have messaged people and no one has responded so for now i think your out of luck.



The first part of your comment is promising.
The second part, about "no one has responded" is incorrect.


that fine I only know those who are frustrated. I am not here to argue or get into it I was simply explaining their point of view some are feeling badgered. I was just trying give you some feedback on why some people are upset. If you have one who has responded positively then good for you.

Bear in mind that is a very low hourly rate and just a starting point and not really what I would consider appropriate if your asking for exclusive rights because they can't resell anything. If you want exclusive rights a lot of people charge 100 usd per hour which is what? 45 pounds an hour or so? because they will be giving you all the original files and never be able to use a single item in that file ever again

anyhow i am bowing out of this conversation because I am finding its about to become an argument of semantics which I dont really want to get into.

good luck hopefully you find someone who will do what you have asked at the price you want.
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26/01/2014 00:52:46

fazz68
fazz68
(Account inactive)
Posts: 767
if you want to know my real job i work as a dustman (refuse collector to those outside Britain) so i spend my days running around clearing up other peoples crap, so scrubbing the bogs at MCdonalds wouldnt bother me. i admire anyone that would bother to do a job most people find distasteful. do i care that muvizu has a paid version, why would i? they have been good to all of us over the years providing us with free software to play with. i made my stance clear on doing work for other people in another thread you started and you politely answered if you ever change your mind email me or words to that effect. well i hadnt changed my mind. so when you start to message me asking if i want sell the rights to my videos and sell my evil dead sets like others are doing and then go on to offer me £10 for my services. you annoyed me and you continue to annoy me with whatever you have posted in this thread. cant say i bothered to read most of it because i really dont care what you have to say. reply to this if you feel you have to and feel free to twist my words into another page long rant if it makes you feel better but i really dont care
edited by fazz68 on 26/01/2014
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26/06/2014 21:37:43

devious
devious
Posts: 20
This was a fascinated thread to read...mostly civil.
I'd like to thank everyone whom took the time to post.

Nonetheless, I asked this question to several entertainers
in my field of magic and comedy (roughly 30).

The consensus was on average $100 USD per minute
of finished edited video was fair. Most magicians did
not wish to go beyond the three minute mark, so
300 USD for a brief three minute video.

This assumes that the script was pre-written and
the animator should be well versed in maximizing
the use of the Muvizer Sofware so as not to spend
hours upon hours of animating the simpler tasks.
(I'm certainly not there).

It's a start, but I agree with those that posted, "My primary
interest is to express creativity through this fascinating medium."
Commercial interests are secondary to my passion for this art form.

With respect for all parties,
Devious
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Home ? Collaboration Requests ? what is the acceptable rate?