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25/08/2015 18:58:47

ukBertyMuvizu mogulExperimental user
ukBerty
Posts: 975 		Am I being a bit thick but the F8 "Hide/Show invisible layers" shows invisible layers, but everything is greyed out so you can't really see what's going on.

To make it useful to me I would need to see the layer properly.

Since I have discovered you can click on the little eye to view/hide on the show layers window it's no big deal as it can be done quite quickly from there.
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26/08/2015 21:32:34

ziggy72Muvizu mogulExperimental user
ziggy72
Posts: 1988 		The AO doesn't show on the rendered output unless you turn it up to absurd levels, and then you can start to see it a little.
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27/08/2015 01:24:44

braj
braj
Posts: 286 		What was changed with the release?
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27/08/2015 03:51:08

ziggy72Muvizu mogulExperimental user
ziggy72
Posts: 1988 		Changes include fixes for :

* Crash on startup when checking direct x version
* favourites spawning under the ground
* invisible objects affecting the scene (e.g. characters falling down) when rendering
* Improvements to particles being rendered on layers
* Watermark can be added to render layers
* Bloom, DoF, Motion blur no longer break rendered layers output
* Usability improvements to render layers (check boxes on the make video window)
* Make video preview correctly does not display invisible or not for to be rendered layers

(posted by Staff member Jamie on another thread)
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27/08/2015 04:03:28

braj
braj
Posts: 286 		Cool, thanks!
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27/08/2015 15:26:52

WozToonsExperimental user
WozToons
Posts: 494 		Still crashes on startup. :-(
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27/08/2015 16:37:59

ziggy72Muvizu mogulExperimental user
ziggy72
Posts: 1988 		Did you try the DX9 switch to force it to open? Brian Gray posted this earlier :

1. Right click on desktop icon
2. Select Properties
3. Edit "Target" Command Line
4. at end on line just add -dx9
5. Click save then Ok button

SAMPLE: "C:\Program Files\Muvizu Play\Binaries64\Muvizu.exe" -dx9
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28/08/2015 13:18:19

WozToonsExperimental user
WozToons
Posts: 494 		ziggy72 wrote:
Did you try the DX9 switch to force it to open? Brian Gray posted this earlier :

1. Right click on desktop icon
2. Select Properties
3. Edit "Target" Command Line
4. at end on line just add -dx9
5. Click save then Ok button

SAMPLE: "C:\Program Files\Muvizu Play\Binaries64\Muvizu.exe" -dx9


Thanks Ziggy, that's at least got it loading but now I have no access to dx11 which before July I did so it is still broken if I want to use dx11. I know my machine and graphics card are perfectly capable of doing this as I had no problem before recent updates. I hope the devs can sort this soon as it's rather annoying.
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28/08/2015 14:53:32

BrianGray
BrianGray
Posts: 45 		Hello Woz...
Even though you force a dx9 start Muvizu still loads dx11 if its set to dx11 in the options menu. If you look you'll see that Layers are available and working. Layers only work with dx11. Now to clarify this is an issue only on my laptop with Windows 10 and intel video as support said last week. On my desktop windows 10 and AMD video there is no problem. Muvizu loads as it should. Support still needs to sort this out as you say.
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28/08/2015 15:17:18

WozToonsExperimental user
WozToons
Posts: 494 		Hi Brian, I have Intel Graphics as well. DirectX no longer appears in the options menu but you're right... layers do appear to be available. Thanks for the advice, some further testing here is required.
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28/08/2015 17:07:04

BrianGray
BrianGray
Posts: 45 		So its not just me. My DirectX options don't show in the option menu either since this last update. But dx11 seems to be loaded as LAYERS would indicate. But on my Desktop all is normal(ish). Glad it worked for you. You can at least get some work done.
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01/09/2015 19:44:45

ukBertyMuvizu mogulExperimental user
ukBerty
Posts: 975 		Probably need to tidy the TGA export a bit.

1) When I export I create a directory for each shot, otherwise it just creates a layer0, layer1 etc folder. If you don't manually create a folder then you just overwrite the previous shot. I think a better export option would be to type the name of a folder (defaulting to the name of the set). Muvizu would then either create or populate this folder with Layer0, Layer1 etc.

2) You don't get prompted to overwrite anything. I don't really mind this but it should probably warn you.

3) If only overwrites the .tga files to the length of the shot. If you shorten a shot then you get a load of orphaned .tga files from the previous render

Just ideas.....
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04/09/2015 09:34:54

ukBertyMuvizu mogulExperimental user
ukBerty
Posts: 975 		Looks like the layers window doesn't show object groups, so these all end up on the background layer and you can't reallocate them. If you ungroup them they pop back up and you can move them.
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05/09/2015 11:45:42

ukBertyMuvizu mogulExperimental user
ukBerty
Posts: 975 		WTF ???



Something to do with layers is trashing my sets...... Just trying to work out what....
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05/09/2015 12:40:07

ukBertyMuvizu mogulExperimental user
ukBerty
Posts: 975 		OK - here's how you break it....

  • Create a new set
  • Add a man character
  • Create a second layer (layer1)
  • Assign your character to that layer
  • Hide the background layer
  • Save and open the set
So basically if you save your set when any layers are hidden then the set will never open again Loo Flush
When you have a more complex set textures go missing from objects as well and if you save again the set won't open at all.
I'll log a incident with support as this is a nasty one and I've wasted days of work Violin, but at least I know what it is now

An update.....
This is a load issue as you can open, make all the layers visible and save again in the Aug 5th version. This set will then load correctly in the Aug 20th version.
I actually believe you can open sets made in the latest version in the Aug 5th version and fix them - not completely tested but it may dig you out of a hole (I wish I had worked this out before rebuilding some of my sets!)
edited by ukBerty on 07/09/2015
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05/09/2015 12:56:47

DreekoMuvizu mogulExperimental user
Dreeko
Posts: 1257 		Jeezo! That's a bad one!

Isn't it amazing how the more amazing the feature is that they include the greater the amount of bugs that appear!

God help us when keyframing arrives... Eek!

D
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05/09/2015 13:29:56

ukBertyMuvizu mogulExperimental user
ukBerty
Posts: 975 		I know it'll slow things down, but I really think they should try and get a stable release out as a number of users are having to hold back - in the next release the layers may be usable, but the waypoints are bound to have a knock on affect to something else.
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05/09/2015 16:01:19

MrDrWho13Muvizu mogulExperimental user
MrDrWho13
Posts: 2220 		ukBerty wrote:
I really think they should try and get a stable release out as a number of users are having to hold back

Bring on the old beta testing concept!
Points aggressively to tester badge
edited by MrDrWho13 on 05/09/2015
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05/09/2015 17:52:35

urbanlamb
urbanlamb
(Account inactive)
Posts: 1786 		yes they should not be releasing this stuff untested they do need to re-implement their beta test program because they will just loose users this way. Not everyone is patient and willing to wait so better to try to sort some of the major bugs before releasing it to the entire population.
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05/09/2015 20:20:19

ziggy72Muvizu mogulExperimental user
ziggy72
Posts: 1988 		MrDrWho13 wrote:
ukBerty wrote:
I really think they should try and get a stable release out as a number of users are having to hold back

Bring on the old beta testing concept!
Points aggressively to tester badge

Yup, that's why we've got the badge. Was just saying to ukBerty the other day that I never switch versions until it's all working which is why I will be sticking with v1.3 for a bit longer, it seems. I still have v1.2 (previous best stable version), and then the 0.23b final beta version, and then 0.18b (previous best stable beta version). Okay, I will never need the beta versions again, but I so distrusted Play until v1.2 that I kept them, just in case. I hate losing sets to buggy versions! And there really should be a warning associated with 'do you want to download the update?' message box, just to let people know they'll be acting as testers, not just consumers.
edited by ziggy72 on 05/09/2015
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06/09/2015 17:27:37

PatMarrNCMuvizu mogul
PatMarrNC
Posts: 1738 		thanks for doing all the diligent detective work to discover what messed up your project ukBerty... if I hadn't been busy with other things the past few days, I would have undoubtedly saved a project with hidden layers before you brought this to our attention.

So, what's the best approach when I get the message that a new version is available? Make a new installation so the old one is still available if the fix is broken?

(Also, add me to the list of people who think beta testing is a good idea. )
edited by PatMarrNC on 06/09/2015
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06/09/2015 18:20:22

ukBertyMuvizu mogulExperimental user
ukBerty
Posts: 975 		Yes- always install into a new directory. So I have Muvizu July 2015, Muvizu Aug 2015 and Muvizu Sep 2015 directories. It all works fine. you just have to authenticate your license each time.

The only issue is that sets are not backward compatible (which is fair enough).
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07/09/2015 12:08:38

DanimalMuvizu mogulExperimental user
Danimal
Posts: 477 		ziggy72 wrote:
Okay, I will never need the beta versions again, but I so distrusted Play until v1.2 that I kept them, just in case.

Same here. I've got every version since I joined saved. I'm not sure which current version I'm using, but it's at least three updates old and as more and more glitches turn up, even in the patched version, I have no desire to upgrade. I'm pretty sure I'll never use layers given how simple my workflow is, though it doesn't seem anyone is having luck using them anyway and with all the crashes they seem to be causing, I'll sit tight for a version that works. Riiiight.
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07/09/2015 19:58:20

mystoMuvizu mogulExperimental user
mysto
Posts: 471 		While I appreciate all of the new "bells and whistles" that's been incorporated into Muvizu, I have to say that so far I've not had any major problems. My approach to using Muvizu is pretty simple. I learn to use things on a "need to know" basis, meaning that I only learn the things I need to know to get the current project I'm working on done. I like to keep things as simple as possible.

It's nice to know that we have more options available with Muvizu and maybe someday they will all work correctly but for the time being it seems to be doing everything that I need it to do. I'm looking forward to seeing Muvizu develop and grow. Even with it's current flaws it's still a great program. IMHO.
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07/09/2015 20:40:17

Clam
Clam
Posts: 51 		I'm with mysto. BUT I sure wish I could get layers to have transparent backgrounds. All I get are solid white or black depending on the settings when I output to targa. Someone said this has been fixed, but I have the latest update and no joy. Windows 10, plenty of ram, etc. Nvidea Geforce GTX 745. New computer. Gotta stick with green screens I guess.

Other than that, all is pretty awesome for my needs.
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08/09/2015 06:05:40

ukBertyMuvizu mogulExperimental user
ukBerty
Posts: 975 		Clam,

I can confirm that transparent backgrounds with TGA files does work - not sure why it's not working for you.

I suppose the first questions are....

  • How many layers do you have ?
  • What program are you using to determine whether the backgrounds are transparent ?
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08/09/2015 07:04:07

Clam
Clam
Posts: 51 		Thanks for the response, ukBerty. I've tried one and two layers. I use Sony Movie Studio HD Platinum (13--the latest) and I opened a targa in my drawing program (Xara) with the same results. Could you do me a favor (a favour, that is) and tell me the exact settings you use? Maybe I'm just missing something. As hard as it is for me to admit that Also, let me know what program you use and maybe I can test with that.
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08/09/2015 11:43:14

NeilExperimental userMuvizu staff
Neil
Posts: 396 		ukBerty wrote:
So basically if you save your set when any layers are hidden then the set will never open again Loo Flush
When you have a more complex set textures go missing from objects as well and if you save again the set won't open at all.
I'll log a incident with support as this is a nasty one and I've wasted days of work Violin, but at least I know what it is now


Thanks for the detailed report, ukBerty. We've figured out what's causing the problem and we're looking at how best to fix it (without hopefully breaking anything else in the process... oh dear god).

As you've noted, your actual sets are fine and haven't been corrupted, the problem is during the loading. So once we release a fix, your sets should load correctly again. Of course, you can't use them in the meantime and for that I apologise.
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08/09/2015 11:54:02

ukBertyMuvizu mogulExperimental user
ukBerty
Posts: 975 		Thanks Neil - You can still open them in the Aug 5th version, make all the layers visible and save it again - this also fixes it.
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08/09/2015 12:06:13

ukBertyMuvizu mogulExperimental user
ukBerty
Posts: 975 		Clam wrote:
Could you do me a favor (a favour, that is) and tell me the exact settings you use? Maybe I'm just missing something. As hard as it is for me to admit that Also, let me know what program you use and maybe I can test with that.


Clam,

Well there's no special settings at all really - Make sure you're using directX 11 in options. I also use 1280x720 and no codec.
If I'm using layers then I rebuild the shots in HitFilm 3.0 - it's just my favoured compositor.

I have had a look in Vegas and yes - the layers don't show transparency by default - so you're not going mad. Looks like you need to set the Alpha channel.

So right click on the TGA in Vegas and choose properties > media. Change field order to "Upper field first" and alpha channel to "Premultiplied" and that should do it.

I sound like I know what I'm talking about but I just followed this -


I don't know how to set this on multiple TGA images at the same time in Vegas though - if you work that out please post, otherwise it's going to be tedious !

Cheers

Berty
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08/09/2015 15:33:22

PatMarrNCMuvizu mogul
PatMarrNC
Posts: 1738 		ukBerty wrote:
Yes- always install into a new directory. So I have Muvizu July 2015, Muvizu Aug 2015 and Muvizu Sep 2015 directories. It all works fine. you just have to authenticate your license each time.

The only issue is that sets are not backward compatible (which is fair enough).


there's been a release since September 1? I don't think I got the memo....
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08/09/2015 17:23:15

Clam
Clam
Posts: 51 		ukBerty: Thanks so much! And I have figured out how to make your steps apply to all the targa images at once. Import one targa file. Change the settings as you suggested. Click the save icon on that same dialog box (the floppy disk). All future imports of targa files will then have the same settings. However, I think you need to bail out of Vegas and restart, then import the rest of the targa files in order for the new settings to work.

Also, in order for the transparency to work, I had to click the track fx icon in the track header and choose "Sony channel blend."
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08/09/2015 17:40:52

MrDrWho13Muvizu mogulExperimental user
MrDrWho13
Posts: 2220 		@Berty I'm using Sony Vegas movie studio platinum 11 so I'm not sure if this is the same as whatever you're using.
Click the first image then select the "open still image sequence" tickbox to the left of the open button.


Then you should be able to treat it as a video and change all the images at once. Not 100% sure about that though.
edited by MrDrWho13 on 08/09/2015
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08/09/2015 17:51:04

ukBertyMuvizu mogulExperimental user
ukBerty
Posts: 975 		PatMarrNC wrote:


there's been a release since September 1? I don't think I got the memo....


Yes, well my naming convention fell down when they released two in a month - I wasn't expecting so much activity !!

The Sep 2015 folder is in fact the Aug 20th release.
edited by ukBerty on 08/09/2015
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09/09/2015 08:45:43

ukBertyMuvizu mogulExperimental user
ukBerty
Posts: 975 		Just to make sure that Muvizu HQ know that "Camera Shake" is still not compatible with layers..

I'll log a call.
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09/09/2015 08:48:48

ukBertyMuvizu mogulExperimental user
ukBerty
Posts: 975 		MrDrWho13 wrote:

Then you should be able to treat it as a video and change all the images at once. Not 100% sure about that though.
edited by MrDrWho13 on 08/09/2015


That seems to have nailed it - cheers.....
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09/09/2015 10:53:11

NeilExperimental userMuvizu staff
Neil
Posts: 396 		ukBerty wrote:
Just to make sure that Muvizu HQ know that "Camera Shake" is still not compatible with layers..

I'll log a call.

I poked Dave about it. He said "Oi, stop poking me" and then promised he'd fix it.
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13/09/2015 08:25:59

ukBertyMuvizu mogulExperimental user
ukBerty
Posts: 975 		Change request.....

Could you please suppress the warning regarding the number of faces when you open a set please. It's fair enough when you import an object, but if I've saved the set you can assume that I'm happy with the imported object and I don't need to warned again.

It may sound petty, but some complex sets can take 5 minutes to open. If I've gone to make a cup of tea and this message pops up 20 seconds into the load then it's really quite annoying. I have to make a second cup.

I get through a lot of tea.
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18/09/2015 08:52:07

ukBertyMuvizu mogulExperimental user
ukBerty
Posts: 975 		There is a lurking lip sync bug...

Occasionally characters just don't move their lips at all. If you re-render without changing anything then they do.

I've had it a few times but as I can't reproduce it or devise an explanation I haven't reported it, but it's in there.......
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18/09/2015 16:01:03

ziggy72Muvizu mogulExperimental user
ziggy72
Posts: 1988 		...just like the lurking eye movement bug, which will occasionally 'lock' a characters eyes to default during a render, but never in preview, so you don't know about it till afterwards. Can't replicate it ever, since redoing the render usually clears it, but it definitely happens.
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20/09/2015 08:09:26

ukBertyMuvizu mogulExperimental user
ukBerty
Posts: 975 		I've been working with layers quite a bit and am wondering if this is a bug or the way it's supposed to work....

I have 3 layers + background. If I have a character on layers 1 and 3 and the props on 2, then when I render out there is a hierarchy.

My character on layer 1 renders completely, even if he walks behind something in the shot.
The Props on layer 2 will have a character 1 shaped hole in them. Anything he stands in front of will be rendered as transparent.
My character on layer 3 will only partially render - anything he walks behind will cause a prop shaped hole.

This may be the way it's supposed to work - it's fine for adding effects to individual layers, but I like to use layers for subtly re-positioning characters which of course will not work as it leaves gaps.

I don't think it is supposed to do this as if you render the layers separately instead of all together then all layers render in full.
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21/09/2015 07:24:40

ukBertyMuvizu mogulExperimental user
ukBerty
Posts: 975 		Could you change it so which layers are selected to render save with the set please.

If you open a set and deselect a layer to render then the set will ask you to save if you close it. However if you do save and reload then the deselected layer is selected once again.

Many thanks......
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22/09/2015 11:05:05

JamieExperimental userMuvizu staff
Jamie
Posts: 151 		ukBerty wrote:
My character on layer 1 renders completely, even if he walks behind something in the shot.
The Props on layer 2 will have a character 1 shaped hole in them. Anything he stands in front of will be rendered as transparent.
My character on layer 3 will only partially render - anything he walks behind will cause a prop shaped hole.

This may be the way it's supposed to work - it's fine for adding effects to individual layers, but I like to use layers for subtly re-positioning characters which of course will not work as it leaves gaps.

I don't think it is supposed to do this as if you render the layers separately instead of all together then all layers render in full.



This is the way it's meant to work. Sorry.

The improvement here might be to have a re-order system on the layers (move layer up / down in the list).
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22/09/2015 11:05:23

JamieExperimental userMuvizu staff
Jamie
Posts: 151 		ukBerty wrote:
Could you change it so which layers are selected to render save with the set please.

If you open a set and deselect a layer to render then the set will ask you to save if you close it. However if you do save and reload then the deselected layer is selected once again.

Many thanks......



Should be possible.
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22/09/2015 11:29:46

JamieExperimental userMuvizu staff
Jamie
Posts: 151 		ukBerty wrote:
Change request.....

Could you please suppress the warning regarding the number of faces when you open a set please. It's fair enough when you import an object, but if I've saved the set you can assume that I'm happy with the imported object and I don't need to warned again.



Could you send me a set file that has this problem? Or actually an fbx files that will let me generate a set file with this problem.
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22/09/2015 14:43:31

ukBertyMuvizu mogulExperimental user
ukBerty
Posts: 975 		Jamie wrote:


This is the way it's meant to work. Sorry.


I think a better improvement would be to have a tick box to say "Render layers in full" - then render all selected layers as if you were rendering one by one ??
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22/09/2015 14:43:58

ukBertyMuvizu mogulExperimental user
ukBerty
Posts: 975 		Jamie wrote:

Could you send me a set file that has this problem? Or actually an fbx files that will let me generate a set file with this problem.


Will do......
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22/09/2015 15:49:12

JamieExperimental userMuvizu staff
Jamie
Posts: 151 		ukBerty wrote:
I think a better improvement would be to have a tick box to say "Render layers in full" - then render all selected layers as if you were rendering one by one ??



I spoke to CrazyDave and he say's he can make this happen - should it be per layer or just a global option?
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22/09/2015 16:24:27

ukBertyMuvizu mogulExperimental user
ukBerty
Posts: 975 		Global would probably be fine... What do you think ?
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22/09/2015 19:46:36

MrDrWho13Muvizu mogulExperimental user
MrDrWho13
Posts: 2220 		ukBerty wrote:
Global would probably be fine... What do you think ?

Global please
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01/10/2015 22:52:59

ziggy72Muvizu mogulExperimental user
ziggy72
Posts: 1988


DEV test vid. Works well
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the topic is closed

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