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02/07/2016 05:50:47

tonyob67
tonyob67
Posts: 211 		I am working on a project and I need I Cinema or movie theater from the outside, like the one on the attached picture or similar ...please help



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02/07/2016 15:15:01

PatMarrNCMuvizu mogul
PatMarrNC
Posts: 1738 		even for those who don't have modelling skills, it's possible to do quite a lot by loading primitive shapes (like square blocks) and resizing them and applying textures to them. There are also 3D letters built into Muvizu that can be used to make the CINEMA sign. That bottom example could be totally created in Muvizu with primitives, textures and letters.

Actually, since you already have an image of two cinemas, you can also apply one of them as a texture to a large backdrop, and presto! Instant cinema! To make it look 3D, you could load a primitive block first and size it as large as it will go (to create the squareness of a building) You might be able to apply the photo directly to the block as a texture, but if not, place a backdrop in front of the block and apply the photo as texture to it.
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02/07/2016 17:28:18

tonyob67
tonyob67
Posts: 211 		Good idea...Thak you for your great help Pat
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02/07/2016 20:31:12

PatMarrNCMuvizu mogul
PatMarrNC
Posts: 1738 		I just spent a couple of hours experimenting with the primitive shapes in Muvizu, and they are REALLY useful! Even if someone already knows how to model, an awful lot of stuff can be built very quickly this way.

I especially like the way these shapes accept textures... you can control the size of the texture which is very useful.

A short cylinder with a wood fence texture becomes an instant wooden barrel.
A longer cylinder with a bark texture makes a great looking log.
A cube with a brick texture makes a great building block for assembling a building.

You can even apply textures that contain alpha areas (but not alpha that has alpha set to some opacity between zero and 100.. under about 30% the color disappears completely, and much more than 30% the color becomes solid)

But if you make a piece of sheet glass in a modelling program and assign a 30% opaque color to it and save a ASE, the glass look works, and you can use that as windows in whatever buildings you might make with primitives
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02/07/2016 23:37:50

ziggy72Muvizu mogulExperimental user
ziggy72
Posts: 1988 		They are really useful those abstract shapes and blocks... until the collision physics implode your set. That's why they don't get used so much. I built a building using just blocks in one of my sets, and it was like working on an unexploded bomb while shooting. It's this one http://www.muvizu.com/Set/32152/Street-At-Night-KFI

If you want to have some fun, download it and resize one of the blocks at the base of the building... Big Grin
edited by ziggy72 on 03/07/2016
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03/07/2016 01:50:47

PatMarrNCMuvizu mogul
PatMarrNC
Posts: 1738 		ziggy72 wrote:
They are really useful those abstract shapes and blocks... until the collision physics implode your set. That's why they don't get used so much. I built a building using just blocks in one of my sets, and it was like working on an unexploded bomb while shooting. It's this one http://www.muvizu.com/Set/32152/Street-At-Night-KFI. If you want to have some fun, download it and resize one of the blocks at the base of the building... Big Grin


you're right about that! Better get the sizes right as you stack, because trying to resize anything that touches anything else is sure to make you angry.

But... collision can also be your friend when using the primitives. Whereas a full model of a building would need to have the collision minimized in order to put people inside it, you can create enclosed areas with blocks and people can immediately enter and move around inside the enclosure.

I'm not suggesting that using the basic shapes is best practice, but there was just a 50% off sale, and we've already seen several new people on the forum. The blocks provide a very good way for people to add stuff to their sets just using what's built into Muvizu, without having to learn modelling right away. Modelling has its own learning curve, and I think most people prefer to deal with one of those at a time. .
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03/07/2016 02:54:59

tonyob67
tonyob67
Posts: 211 		ziggy72 wrote:
They are really useful those abstract shapes and blocks... until the collision physics implode your set. That's why they don't get used so much. I built a building using just blocks in one of my sets, and it was like working on an unexploded bomb while shooting. It's this one http://www.muvizu.com/Set/32152/Street-At-Night-KFI. If you want to have some fun, download it and resize one of the blocks at the base of the building... Big Grin




Very nice work, I guess it took forever to make that building, its great and will help me as a guide...all the details are great...How you do the transparent glass?...thank you
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03/07/2016 03:09:10

tonyob67
tonyob67
Posts: 211 		PatMarrNC wrote:
ziggy72 wrote:
They are really useful those abstract shapes and blocks... until the collision physics implode your set. That's why they don't get used so much. I built a building using just blocks in one of my sets, and it was like working on an unexploded bomb while shooting. It's this one http://www.muvizu.com/Set/32152/Street-At-Night-KFI. If you want to have some fun, download it and resize one of the blocks at the base of the building... Big Grin


you're right about that! Better get the sizes right as you stack, because trying to resize anything that touches anything else is sure to make you angry.

But... collision can also be your friend when using the primitives. Whereas a full model of a building would need to have the collision minimized in order to put people inside it, you can create enclosed areas with blocks and people can immediately enter and move around inside the enclosure.

I'm not suggesting that using the basic shapes is best practice, but there was just a 50% off sale, and we've already seen several new people on the forum. The blocks provide a very good way for people to add stuff to their sets just using what's built into Muvizu, without having to learn modelling right away. Modelling has its own learning curve, and I think most people prefer to deal with one of those at a time. .


You´re right about every thing...You know, I am the luckiest person in the world, I tried to buy the license one night and my credit card did not go thru, so I tried the next morning and Surprise!... I bought it half the price.....Thank you guys
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03/07/2016 15:31:15

Rocque
Rocque
Posts: 359 		This is another interesting topic, but the link Ziggy supplied is not working for me. I get an error page. When I take out the period at the end I go to Google results and that leads me to the set. Yay. Perseverance and animating go hand in hand.

Here is the link if those reading in the future want to go directly to the set. http://www.muvizu.com/Set/32152/Street-At-Night-KFI
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03/07/2016 15:33:44

ziggy72Muvizu mogulExperimental user
ziggy72
Posts: 1988 		tonyob67 wrote:
ziggy72 wrote:
They are really useful those abstract shapes and blocks... until the collision physics implode your set. That's why they don't get used so much. I built a building using just blocks in one of my sets, and it was like working on an unexploded bomb while shooting. It's this one http://www.muvizu.com/Set/32152/Street-At-Night-KFI. If you want to have some fun, download it and resize one of the blocks at the base of the building... Big Grin




Very nice work, I guess it took forever to make that building, its great and will help me as a guide...all the details are great...How you do the transparent glass?...thank you

The 'glass' is just a box I made in sketchup. When I import it, I set the alpha to Opacity. Once imported, I assign a semi-transparent PNG to all sides to make it look 'glassy'. Imported shapes can always be set to be fully transparent like this, unlike the on/off transparency of the abstract blocks.
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03/07/2016 15:34:39

ziggy72Muvizu mogulExperimental user
ziggy72
Posts: 1988 		Rocque wrote:
This is another interesting topic, but the link Ziggy supplied is not working for me. I get an error page. When I take out the period at the end I go to Google results and that leads me to the set. Yay. Perseverance and animating go hand in hand.

Here is the link if those reading in the future want to go directly to the set. http://www.muvizu.com/Set/32152/Street-At-Night-KFI

Yup, a full stop got in there on my OP. Thanks Rocque.
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03/07/2016 16:05:43

PatMarrNCMuvizu mogul
PatMarrNC
Posts: 1738 		it may be worth mentioning that you can also highlight all the blocks you've stacked and GROUP them together. That way you can't accidentally change attributes of a single piece and explode the whole project. Unfortunately, you can't save groups in Favourites, which makes it harder to reuse your painstaking work
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04/07/2016 06:01:53

clayster2012Muvizu mogul
clayster2012
Posts: 645 		tonyob67 wrote:
I am working on a project and I need I Cinema or movie theater from the outside, like the one on the attached picture or similar ...please help







Hows this, I hope it's what your looking for, made it in 5 minutes



I messaged you the download link
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04/07/2016 06:14:32

tonyob67
tonyob67
Posts: 211 		That is great!!! perfect, I finished building one, but yours is better, please send it to orts.antonio@gmail.com
I appreciate your help my fiend
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04/07/2016 06:17:08

clayster2012Muvizu mogul
clayster2012
Posts: 645 		check your muvizu messages, I gave you the link to the file, let me know if it works.
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04/07/2016 06:19:14

clayster2012Muvizu mogul
clayster2012
Posts: 645 		oh and your most welcome
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04/07/2016 06:19:25

tonyob67
tonyob67
Posts: 211 		This is the one I finaly build haha, it eas very hard but I made it


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04/07/2016 06:23:33

clayster2012Muvizu mogul
clayster2012
Posts: 645 		tonyob67 wrote:
This is the one I finaly build haha, it eas very hard but I made it



Hey that's really good, I would understand if you want to use yours, anyways it only took me five minutes to make.
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04/07/2016 06:39:06

tonyob67
tonyob67
Posts: 211 		I like yours better, but I have a problem opening the file, I download it already, but when trying to open the file, I get an error license message
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04/07/2016 06:43:37

clayster2012Muvizu mogul
clayster2012
Posts: 645 		Hmm..what i can do is send you the ase files, and you can import it to muvizu
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04/07/2016 06:53:10

clayster2012Muvizu mogul
clayster2012
Posts: 645 		Ill send them to you tomorrow ok, something came up.
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04/07/2016 06:54:13

clayster2012Muvizu mogul
clayster2012
Posts: 645 		I'll send the files to you tomorrow, something major came up.
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04/07/2016 07:57:38

tonyob67
tonyob67
Posts: 211 		I don't know how but I guess we can try that...thank you for your help
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04/07/2016 13:30:10

Rocque
Rocque
Posts: 359 		Both of the cinemas look fantastic. Clayster's has the characters in line and that is a nice addition to the scene. They are both very nostalgic looking because where I live you either buy your tickets online, or at an ATM looking device outside the theater or inside if you want to actually buy from a real live person. It has been a long time since I have seen a ticket seller outside a cinema. I imagine that some never will and wonder why it is there in your scene. Hopefully they will find out the history behind having the ticket seller outside. The Pantages Theater in Hollywood still has that old time feel to it (or at least it did the last time I was there to see a play).

Your sets remind me of a time when life was less threatening, and going to see a movie was more fun. I look forward to seeing what you create with the set.

Note to Clayster: 5 minutes to create your set? When you have some spare time, can you make some tutorials on your set making magic?
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04/07/2016 16:01:17

PatMarrNCMuvizu mogul
PatMarrNC
Posts: 1738
Note to Clayster: 5 minutes to create your set?


yeah Clayster.. that's insanely fast. I couldn't even decide what I want to do in 5 minutes, let alone do it.

Excellent work too.. both of them!

Tonyob67, Nice work on the glass enclosure around the attendant!
edited by PatMarrNC on 04/07/2016
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04/07/2016 16:26:22

PatMarrNCMuvizu mogul
PatMarrNC
Posts: 1738 		Rocque wrote:
It has been a long time since I have seen a ticket seller outside a cinema. I imagine that some never will and wonder why it is there in your scene. Hopefully they will find out the history behind having the ticket seller outside. The Pantages Theater in Hollywood still has that old time feel to it (or at least it did the last time I was there to see a play).

Your sets remind me of a time when life was less threatening, and going to see a movie was more fun.


ah, Rocque... you need to get outside California more often! Heah in the South it's still fun and non-threatening to go see a movie! And the tickets here are still bought at the front of the theater, sold by real people. In fact, I've gone to the cinema in several different states... even once in California... , and I bought my ticket out front from a real person at each of the theaters
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04/07/2016 17:19:56

clayster2012Muvizu mogul
clayster2012
Posts: 645 		tonyob67 wrote:
I like yours better, but I have a problem opening the file, I download it already, but when trying to open the file, I get an error license message



do you have a license version of muvizu, because I made it in ase format, and i think you must have the license version in order to use file, so that maybe why you get the error.
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04/07/2016 17:21:25

clayster2012Muvizu mogul
clayster2012
Posts: 645 		Rocque wrote:
Both of the cinemas look fantastic. Clayster's has the characters in line and that is a nice addition to the scene. They are both very nostalgic looking because where I live you either buy your tickets online, or at an ATM looking device outside the theater or inside if you want to actually buy from a real live person. It has been a long time since I have seen a ticket seller outside a cinema. I imagine that some never will and wonder why it is there in your scene. Hopefully they will find out the history behind having the ticket seller outside. The Pantages Theater in Hollywood still has that old time feel to it (or at least it did the last time I was there to see a play).

Your sets remind me of a time when life was less threatening, and going to see a movie was more fun. I look forward to seeing what you create with the set.

Note to Clayster: 5 minutes to create your set? When you have some spare time, can you make some tutorials on your set making magic?



Ok what kind of tutorial would you like to see?
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04/07/2016 17:33:08

clayster2012Muvizu mogul
clayster2012
Posts: 645 		tonyob67 wrote:
I don't know how but I guess we can try that...thank you for your help


ok I messaged you the link to the model files, download them and try importing them into muvizu, they are ase format, muvizu lets you import fbx, and ase, before you do and I could be wrong, but i think you must have muvizu play+, so that may not let you import ase if you don't have play+
edited by clayster2012 on 04/07/2016
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04/07/2016 17:44:37

clayster2012Muvizu mogul
clayster2012
Posts: 645 		PatMarrNC wrote:
Rocque wrote:
It has been a long time since I have seen a ticket seller outside a cinema. I imagine that some never will and wonder why it is there in your scene. Hopefully they will find out the history behind having the ticket seller outside. The Pantages Theater in Hollywood still has that old time feel to it (or at least it did the last time I was there to see a play).

Your sets remind me of a time when life was less threatening, and going to see a movie was more fun.


ah, Rocque... you need to get outside California more often! Heah in the South it's still fun and non-threatening to go see a movie! And the tickets here are still bought at the front of the theater, sold by real people. In fact, I've gone to the cinema in several different states... even once in California... , and I bought my ticket out front from a real person at each of the theaters




I work part time as a manager at a cinema, and we have both, the ticket window, and atm, so the Box office is still there.
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04/07/2016 18:28:08

tonyob67
tonyob67
Posts: 211 		PatMarrNC wrote:
Note to Clayster: 5 minutes to create your set?


yeah Clayster.. that's insanely fast. I couldn't even decide what I want to do in 5 minutes, let alone do it.

Excellent work too.. both of them!

Tonyob67, Nice work on the glass enclosure around the attendant!
edited by PatMarrNC on 04/07/2016




Thanks, I used windows and glasses from Klayser's set haha.....Thank you the 2 of you for your great help
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04/07/2016 18:32:27

tonyob67
tonyob67
Posts: 211 		clayster2012 wrote:
tonyob67 wrote:
I like yours better, but I have a problem opening the file, I download it already, but when trying to open the file, I get an error license message



do you have a license version of muvizu, because I made it in ase format, and i think you must have the license version in order to use file, so that maybe why you get the error.





Yes I have I license, I bought Muvizu play+ a few weeks ago, I am learning to use the program and also sketchup pro, but I can not make the pexporter plugin work's, every thing looks differente on my computer than the tutorials.
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04/07/2016 18:36:47

PatMarrNCMuvizu mogul
PatMarrNC
Posts: 1738 		clayster2012 wrote:
Rocque wrote:

Note to Clayster: 5 minutes to create your set? When you have some spare time, can you make some tutorials on your set making magic?


Ok what kind of tutorial would you like to see?


I guess the next question would be: "and in what modelling app?" since the step by step procedures would be different depending on what program you're using.

For me, a generic description of what needs to be done just doesn't cut it.. I need step by step "click this button then select that option..." instructions.

Milkshape is free, and it has an ASE export capability, and I know you use that app quite a bit... so I vote that if you ever make a tutorial , you should make it with Milkshape in mind.
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04/07/2016 18:37:42

tonyob67
tonyob67
Posts: 211 		Rocque wrote:
Both of the cinemas look fantastic. Clayster's has the characters in line and that is a nice addition to the scene. They are both very nostalgic looking because where I live you either buy your tickets online, or at an ATM looking device outside the theater or inside if you want to actually buy from a real live person. It has been a long time since I have seen a ticket seller outside a cinema. I imagine that some never will and wonder why it is there in your scene. Hopefully they will find out the history behind having the ticket seller outside. The Pantages Theater in Hollywood still has that old time feel to it (or at least it did the last time I was there to see a play).

Your sets remind me of a time when life was less threatening, and going to see a movie was more fun. I look forward to seeing what you create with the set.

Note to Clayster: 5 minutes to create your set? When you have some spare time, can you make some tutorials on your set making magic?

Well, I live in Mexico, and I am almost sure that in latin America we all have some person selling tickets at the entrance so it will be normal for the young latin people that see my videos hahaha...Thank you for your nice comments
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04/07/2016 18:40:17

MrDrWho13Muvizu mogulExperimental user
MrDrWho13
Posts: 2220 		tonyob67 wrote:
Yes I have I license, I bought Muvizu play+ a few weeks ago, I am learning to use the program and also sketchup pro, but I can not make the pexporter plugin work's, every thing looks differente on my computer than the tutorials.

You might want to use the older Sketchup 8: https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B-_4UVPr59ACNjBQSTNYRjNwQkE
This way you can use the Ziggymesh exporter which removes most of the collision automatically, making things work much better in Muvizu. http://www.rodneyandberty.com/#!downloads/rmmoz
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04/07/2016 18:42:43

tonyob67
tonyob67
Posts: 211 		tonyob67 wrote:
PatMarrNC wrote:
Note to Clayster: 5 minutes to create your set?


yeah Clayster.. that's insanely fast. I couldn't even decide what I want to do in 5 minutes, let alone do it.

Excellent work too.. both of them!

Tonyob67, Nice work on the glass enclosure around the attendant!
edited by PatMarrNC on 04/07/2016




Thanks, I used windows and glasses from Klayser's set haha.....Thank you the 2 of you for your great help




I am sorry, I made I mistake, I used the glass from ziggy72 set ...Thank you frined
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04/07/2016 18:53:02

tonyob67
tonyob67
Posts: 211 		MrDrWho13 wrote:
tonyob67 wrote:
Yes I have I license, I bought Muvizu play+ a few weeks ago, I am learning to use the program and also sketchup pro, but I can not make the pexporter plugin work's, every thing looks differente on my computer than the tutorials.

You might want to use the older Sketchup 8: https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B-_4UVPr59ACNjBQSTNYRjNwQkE
This way you can use the Ziggymesh exporter which removes most of the collision automatically, making things work much better in Muvizu. http://www.rodneyandberty.com/#!downloads/rmmoz




I will try that..Thank you
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04/07/2016 20:18:53

ziggy72Muvizu mogulExperimental user
ziggy72
Posts: 1988 		tonyob67 wrote:
tonyob67 wrote:
PatMarrNC wrote:
Note to Clayster: 5 minutes to create your set?


yeah Clayster.. that's insanely fast. I couldn't even decide what I want to do in 5 minutes, let alone do it.

Excellent work too.. both of them!

Tonyob67, Nice work on the glass enclosure around the attendant!
edited by PatMarrNC on 04/07/2016




Thanks, I used windows and glasses from Klayser's set haha.....Thank you the 2 of you for your great help




I am sorry, I made I mistake, I used the glass from ziggy72 set ...Thank you frined


Glad you found a use for it. I was going to put all my glass sheets up on the Assets page, but then they stopped allowing models before I got round to it and now I can't. I'm going to have to make my own page somewhere to host all this stuff...
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04/07/2016 20:37:19

Rocque
Rocque
Posts: 359 		PatMarrNC wrote:
clayster2012 wrote:
Rocque wrote:

Note to Clayster: 5 minutes to create your set? When you have some spare time, can you make some tutorials on your set making magic?


Ok what kind of tutorial would you like to see?


I guess the next question would be: "and in what modelling app?" since the step by step procedures would be different depending on what program you're using.

For me, a generic description of what needs to be done just doesn't cut it.. I need step by step "click this button then select that option..." instructions.

Milkshape is free, and it has an ASE export capability, and I know you use that app quite a bit... so I vote that if you ever make a tutorial , you should make it with Milkshape in mind.


If there were tutorials by you, Clayster, I would get that program, and the price of Milkshape sounds great to me. I am not sure if my mind can hold one more thing of new knowledge right now, but just knowing that there would be some step by step help in the future would be something to look forward to.

I am like Pat when it comes to learning. I need baby steps and each step shown or I get lost very easily. I am losing count of how many times I have watched the Muvizu tutorials. I am very glad they are available, and with the added ones on YouTube, I am getting by. I am also glad there is pause, back up, and start over available on those.
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05/07/2016 00:21:38

clayster2012Muvizu mogul
clayster2012
Posts: 645 		Lol..ok well milkshape has a free trial, I think 17 days, I would try it first to see if you would be at ease with it, but it isn't very hard to learn, when I get time I'll throw a few tuts at yaw, just got to decide what kind to start with first.
edited by clayster2012 on 05/07/2016
edited by clayster2012 on 05/07/2016
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05/07/2016 02:18:58

primaveranz
primaveranz
Posts: 520 		Milkshape is awesome, but it is no longer in development and the FBX format it exports is ancient . I have been unable to export textured models from it that contain built-in transparencies (e.g. a transparent window in a frame). You can convert the FBX using the Autodesk converter but it doesn't cure the problem. Somehow the materials become detached from the model on export, so inside Muvizu it only offers you the option to apply a colour not a texture.
ASE is OK as long as you want something that is entirely opaque or entirely transparent, you can't have "windows".
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05/07/2016 13:38:09

PatMarrNCMuvizu mogul
PatMarrNC
Posts: 1738 		clayster2012 wrote:
Lol..ok well milkshape has a free trial, I think 17 days, I would try it first to see if you would be at ease with it, but it isn't very hard to learn, when I get time I'll throw a few tuts at yaw, just got to decide what kind to start with first.


oh.. I thought it was free. If it has a price tag AND its no longer supported, I don't want to pay for a whole new learning curve. So go with whatever software works for Rocque
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05/07/2016 16:22:26

clayster2012Muvizu mogul
clayster2012
Posts: 645 		PatMarrNC wrote:
clayster2012 wrote:
Lol..ok well milkshape has a free trial, I think 17 days, I would try it first to see if you would be at ease with it, but it isn't very hard to learn, when I get time I'll throw a few tuts at yaw, just got to decide what kind to start with first.


oh.. I thought it was free. If it has a price tag AND its no longer supported, I don't want to pay for a whole new learning curve. So go with whatever software works for Rocque



I bought milkshape about two years ago, I went to the website, I didn't see any news about not being developed any more,yes it's been a long time since the site was updated, registrations is still being sold at $35 or EUR 25 as for as I see, but no news of any about no longer
being developed, I emailed the creator to see whats going on, I'm waiting on the the reply
edited by clayster2012 on 05/07/2016
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05/07/2016 18:13:22

PatMarrNCMuvizu mogul
PatMarrNC
Posts: 1738 		oh, $35 ain't exactly free, but for a reasonably powerful modelling package that save as ASE that's a very reasonable price
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05/07/2016 19:47:44

primaveranz
primaveranz
Posts: 520 		There is also Misfit Model 3D, it is free and similar in many ways to Milkshape. Some people prefer it; I find the UI a bit lacking. However is is very capable but I think the only file format of interest Muvizu is concerned is .OBJ
Like Milkshape it has not been updated since about 2011.
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05/07/2016 20:47:19

clayster2012Muvizu mogul
clayster2012
Posts: 645 		primaveranz wrote:
There is also Misfit Model 3D, it is free and similar in many ways to Milkshape. Some people prefer it; I find the UI a bit lacking. However is is very capable but I think the only file format of interest Muvizu is concerned is .OBJ
Like Milkshape it has not been updated since about 2011.


yes I have tried this a long time ago way before i bought Milkshape, I could never get it to fit my needs, but it is free, the only limitation that keeps it really useful for muvizuers is not having fbx, ase exporters, yea you could find a good exporter like Autodesk Fbx converter, but you will still need ase expoter.
edited by clayster2012 on 05/07/2016
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06/07/2016 13:24:45

clayster2012Muvizu mogul
clayster2012
Posts: 645 		I finally got a reply from the creator of milkshape, it seems his job has been keeping him tide from having alot of time to work on milkshape, but he's planning on a vacation to finish the updates that he never got to release yet, he also told me that milkshape is still under development and the fbx exporter will have new updates as soon as he gets the time to add them
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06/07/2016 13:25:58

clayster2012Muvizu mogul
clayster2012
Posts: 645 		So milkshape is still alive
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06/07/2016 15:30:33

PatMarrNCMuvizu mogul
PatMarrNC
Posts: 1738 		clayster2012 wrote:
I finally got a reply from the creator of milkshape, it seems his job has been keeping him tide from having alot of time to work on milkshape, but he's planning on a vacation to finish the updates that he never got to release yet, he also told me that milkshape is still under development and the fbx exporter will have new updates as soon as he gets the time to add them


awesome... maybe I need to give it a try. I downloaded it months ago and never installed it due to learning curve overload (which is still a problem)... but if it ends up with functional ASE and FBX export, it could become the modelling solution of choice for Muvizu users. And at $35 it's even priced like Muvizu...
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07/07/2016 01:29:43

clayster2012Muvizu mogul
clayster2012
Posts: 645 		PatMarrNC wrote:
clayster2012 wrote:
I finally got a reply from the creator of milkshape, it seems his job has been keeping him tide from having alot of time to work on milkshape, but he's planning on a vacation to finish the updates that he never got to release yet, he also told me that milkshape is still under development and the fbx exporter will have new updates as soon as he gets the time to add them


awesome... maybe I need to give it a try. I downloaded it months ago and never installed it due to learning curve overload (which is still a problem)... but if it ends up with functional ASE and FBX export, it could become the modelling solution of choice for Muvizu users. And at $35 it's even priced like Muvizu...



I have version 1.8.5, and it dose have a full functional ASE that can export with textures, this is what I been using for most of everything I been putting in muvizu, I made all of the star wars characters using ASE export in milkshape, now the FBX export is the one he is still working on, although it dose export the files without any problems, but still don't have the function to export with textures.
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07/07/2016 01:35:58

primaveranz
primaveranz
Posts: 520 		Yeah if ASE could handle transparencies and opaque materials in the same model it would be fine, but I guess we have to wait for the FBX fix. There is a really good (and cheap) electronic manual called "Hands on Milkshape" that I bought from http://www.milkshape3d.com/ several years ago, really gets you going quickly.
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07/07/2016 03:03:37

clayster2012Muvizu mogul
clayster2012
Posts: 645 		primaveranz wrote:
Yeah if ASE could handle transparencies and opaque materials in the same model it would be fine, but I guess we have to wait for the FBX fix. There is a really good (and cheap) electronic manual called "Hands on Milkshape" that I bought from http://www.milkshape3d.com/ several years ago, really gets you going quickly.




Transparencies,you mean sort of like this, I made a quick cylinder shape in milkshape then used paint.net to make a red texture, cut off two ends using the wand, then added it to texture the cylinder, so one side would be transparent, imported the ase to muvizu using the Opacity selected in the Map alpha to tab, and use ID textures in the ID textures tab, also imported the same Cylinder using the same texture, but didn't use Opacity in the map Alpha to tab, not sure if this is what your talking about, but Milkshape did the job on transparency.
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07/07/2016 09:00:29

primaveranz
primaveranz
Posts: 520 		That certainy looks hopeful, but my proper had several groups some opaque and one transparent. I tried using separate materials for the groups and then merging them all in to a single group before exporting to ASE. I also tried a single material with transparent parts and merging, And in both cases I tried "use ID textures" and "don't use" but when I get it into Muvizu it is either partially transparent all over or not at all, and I can only apply a colour not a material in game. Will try again later but I can't think of another variation of choices to use.
Cheers.
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07/07/2016 13:27:05

urbanlamb
urbanlamb
(Account inactive)
Posts: 1786 		you need to create a texture with an opacity mask if you use ASE you can only control transparency via a texture and opacity mask (define the alpha in a layer such as you would find in TGA textures)

If you use fbx you can control transparency via the material layers and use semi transparent textures with no mask because the transparency control ability is part of the material so you can increase/decreate transparency inside muvizu because fbx takes advantage of material settings if you export them with the object you created.

ASE ignores all that so your stuck using the texture and masking to define transparency. Then you have to deal with something called alpha sorting as a result.
edited by urbanlamb on 07/07/2016
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07/07/2016 13:32:51

PatMarrNCMuvizu mogul
PatMarrNC
Posts: 1738 		My experience has been the same as Primaveranz when trying to make partially transparent ASE textures. (in Sketchup,not Milkshape). I've tried all the Import settings without ever finding a satisfactory solution

(Satisfactory = part of the object has a completely opaque texture, and part is maybe 30% opaque, like glass)

In all my experiments, I can get the 30% transparent part right... and from certain views the opaque part also looks right... but when I rotate the object and view it from a variety of different angles, there are always ghost-shaded surfaces where I want 100% opacity.

closest I've been able to get is to create an opaque car, and save it as ASE, adding 4 small collision cubes at the base of each tire so the car doesn't sink into the ground... this also serves to remove collision from the area where the windshield will fit later.

Then create a semi transparent windshield at the same coordinates where the windshield would be in the car's coordinate system... and again, save as ASE with a small collision cube somewhere near the top of the windshield. This keeps the two ASE objects from repelling one another when you join them together.

Load both objects into muvizu, and if they fit together in the designing coordinate system, they should come into Muvizu with the same relationship. (if not, manually move the windshield to wherever you want it). Highlight both objects and GROUP them together. Now you have what looks like a solid object, but it is actually 2 separate objects grouped together
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07/07/2016 13:34:29

urbanlamb
urbanlamb
(Account inactive)
Posts: 1786 		look at my trees in the gallery they are using transparency in the form of a mask built into the alpha layer and are ASE.

http://muvizu.com/3D/22911/Maple-Tree

http://muvizu.com/3D/32746/Pine-Trees

http://muvizu.com/3D/23066/Joshua-Tree

In fact the only way you can make something like that in Muvizu is to use ASE which is kinda ironic, but unreal engine has its own system for making vegetation so that is why their FBX is the way it is and your stuck falling back on ASE.
edited by urbanlamb on 07/07/2016
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07/07/2016 14:26:25

clayster2012Muvizu mogul
clayster2012
Posts: 645 		primaveranz wrote:
That certainy looks hopeful, but my proper had several groups some opaque and one transparent. I tried using separate materials for the groups and then merging them all in to a single group before exporting to ASE. I also tried a single material with transparent parts and merging, And in both cases I tried "use ID textures" and "don't use" but when I get it into Muvizu it is either partially transparent all over or not at all, and I can only apply a colour not a material in game. Will try again later but I can't think of another variation of choices to use.
Cheers.



Well Im trying different ways to get it to work the way I wanted, and I did the separate materials and merging them as a singel group to, and got the effect of the texture mixed all together on the whole model, in finger pistols Im trying to make a mug full of beer for the saloon scene, I tried numerous way to get the transparent to work, so what I did was in paint. net I used layers, and and put transparent on the layers that needed it, the flatten the image to one image again, then used it as the texture for the beer, and this is my end results.


still not what Im looking for though.
edited by clayster2012 on 07/07/2016
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07/07/2016 14:51:17

urbanlamb
urbanlamb
(Account inactive)
Posts: 1786 		if your using one texture/material your going to run into alpha sorting for an object like that. You might get rid of it if you use double sided for the glass and single sided for the liquid. This is a visual bug that is present in a lot of older stuff (a reason why fbx became popular it was designed to get rid of this problem).

separate the textures and materials as well two textures/two materials, no alpha mask, fbx.

Its a proximity issue the graphics card doesnt know which to display so it just well does that.
edited by urbanlamb on 07/07/2016
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07/07/2016 15:02:40

PatMarrNCMuvizu mogul
PatMarrNC
Posts: 1738 		Urban Lamb,
thanks for weighing in on this... the forum is a poorer place in your absence! Your contributions to the forum's modelling knowledge have added a lot of value, and I hope that continues

And yeah, your trees are awesome! I use them all the time! Thanks for all past and future uses!

The ASE transparency (using opaque mask) works for the trees because the area between the leaves is 100% clear, which is necessary for that look. Apparently "use Opage Mask" forces the transparency to 100% whether or not the original texture was 100% transparent. Same problem with applying transparent textures to the Muvizu primitives... they always apply at 100% transparency, which tells me they're using opacity mask for texturing the primitives

Until I have time to explore the power of Blender, I'm stuck with using ASE for my transparency. I can get the effect I want using the approach detailed in my last post... it just takes a little more time.

Too bad that Autodesk's FBX converter doesn't offer any controls to help with transparency.
edited by PatMarrNC on 07/07/2016
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07/07/2016 15:21:12

urbanlamb
urbanlamb
(Account inactive)
Posts: 1786 		i have windows that are ase that are not perfectly clear. Opacity masks are basically greyscales so if its grey its semi transparent so if that is what your after make the alpha layer semi transparent (this would translate to grey in the alpha channel and not black)

So you can make something foggy a bit and then make the foggy greyish .. you would need to fart around with it, but it is possible. The only real texture type I have been successful with this is the TGA format because the alpha layer is so easy to define png etc its not really that possible I have found.

TGA is not very popular because its a bit more complicated easier to just define semi transparent and go like in a png.


http://muvizu.com/3D/21842/windows-with-transparency

The cloudy parts on this window are a graded alpha mask white->grey->black with some blurring in there.

And your welcome this particular subject I dont think has come up before I dont think not like this. Anyhow yeah i have done all this inside muvizu its possible just you know "need to know how"
edited by urbanlamb on 07/07/2016
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07/07/2016 15:25:40

PatMarrNCMuvizu mogul
PatMarrNC
Posts: 1738 		primaveranz wrote:
That certainy looks hopeful, but my proper had several groups some opaque and one transparent. I tried using separate materials for the groups and then merging them all in to a single group before exporting to ASE. I also tried a single material with transparent parts and merging, And in both cases I tried "use ID textures" and "don't use" but when I get it into Muvizu it is either partially transparent all over or not at all, and I can only apply a colour not a material in game. Will try again later but I can't think of another variation of choices to use.
Cheers.


Yep, if you select OPACITY MASK you lose the ability to select a texture...
but if you use OPACITY you can apply either colors *OR* textures

Using my approach above (actually, it's Urban Lamb's idea) lets you load the transparent part as a separate object, so you can treat alpha as OPACITY. That way, you have real-time control of the texture. Then by GROUPING the alpha object with other solid components, you get the best of both worlds.

For my current project, I made a transparent wine glass with wine in it (much like Clayster's beer glass with beer in it)

Except I made the wine a separate object from the glass, and mated them together in Muvizu by grouping. In the final analysis, I ended up not using it because the characters were making a toast, and the glasses weren't level... you could see that the "liquid" didn't adjust for gravity... so I went back and made the glass opaque. ;-(
edited by PatMarrNC on 07/07/2016
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07/07/2016 15:29:41

urbanlamb
urbanlamb
(Account inactive)
Posts: 1786 		yes that is because this is not a material property in ASE if you want to do this in ASE you need to build it into the texture You can't get that into the material layer of ASE and FBX works differently LOL so if you want that particular look

The minute you try doing this in ASE with texture you have to beware your alpha sorting and you can't put two textures one behind each other each with an alpha layer. (unless you want to actually take advantage of that bug in which case yeah do it LOL)

You can get away with it in fbx if you seperate everything down and use some of the properties of the material layer.
edited by urbanlamb on 07/07/2016
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07/07/2016 15:36:08

PatMarrNCMuvizu mogul
PatMarrNC
Posts: 1738 		urbanlamb wrote:
i have windows that are ase that are not perfectly clear. (snip)

http://muvizu.com/3D/21842/windows-with-transparency


I was just studying these windows yesterday! Again, thanks for these, one more of the value-adding contributions you've made to the world of Muvizudom!

These windows are what taught me the technique I detailed previously... the glass and frames are imported as separate objects so the transparency of the glass doesn't affect the opacity of the frames. Also, the glass is imported with alpha treated as OPACITY (not opacity mask) so the 30% opaque glass texture can be used.

As far as I can tell, with ASE, this is the only way to get an alpha object and an opaque object together: Import them separately and then group them.
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07/07/2016 15:40:41

urbanlamb
urbanlamb
(Account inactive)
Posts: 1786 		(ugh not thinking when I wrote that post)

This window was a request for it to be in parts. It is possible to make that window as a single unit. However you need to beware the alpha sort bug which might come into play because the window part not just a plane its a square with mass. The person was requesting it for a specific purpose and wanted it to fit a certain style and to be in two parts.

if you search this forum you will find a post where i demonstrate the alpha sort bug on a window which is not totally clear and has frosting on a door with a handle. (assuming i have not deleted the photo).


yeah the photo is gone anyhow i made a door with a window in it and a handle for a set a long long time ago and I posted a photo of the alpha sort bug because the texture was one unit and used on all the parts of the door. Anyhow i deleted a pile of stuff awhile back cause i was running out of room for stuff and i removed that photo. The mask is a greyscale if you want to have semi transparent.

So that window was a bad example because I forgot I had treated it differently as a result of the request that was made.
edited by urbanlamb on 07/07/2016
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07/07/2016 16:08:48

PatMarrNCMuvizu mogul
PatMarrNC
Posts: 1738 		I trust your judgement on whether or not there's a way to get alpha and opaque objects together in the same import.. you know a heckuva lot more about this stuff than I do. Meanwhile, I'll keep researching to try & figure out how. Event5ually I'll bite the bullet and learn Blender... or at least how to do a few key things in it.

It's hard to justify the learning curve when I'm already fairly competent in another modelling program, and there are other programs screaming for the attention of my 3 remaining brain cells...
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07/07/2016 16:14:22

urbanlamb
urbanlamb
(Account inactive)
Posts: 1786 		yeah its possible. Its a texturing issue if your using ase you have to understand alpha channels and how to grade them and create masks. If the window glass was a single flat plane and not a cube like in that case there would be no alpha sort issue and it would work like the tree. The way to make it a bit foggy is to grade the mask.

I would at this point only use ASE for trees and things that need to look like bunches of objects and using transparency like that to make the leaves seperate and ignore it for any other application its easier to do with fbx way way easier.
edited by urbanlamb on 07/07/2016
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08/07/2016 00:51:56

clayster2012Muvizu mogul
clayster2012
Posts: 645 		urbanlamb wrote:
if your using one texture/material your going to run into alpha sorting for an object like that. You might get rid of it if you use double sided for the glass and single sided for the liquid. This is a visual bug that is present in a lot of older stuff (a reason why fbx became popular it was designed to get rid of this problem).

separate the textures and materials as well two textures/two materials, no alpha mask, fbx.

Its a proximity issue the graphics card doesnt know which to display so it just well does that.
edited by urbanlamb on 07/07/2016


already happen, I just did away with it, and went with the beer glass in muvizu
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Muvizu is easy to use 3D animation software that allows anyone to create high quality animations quickly and easily. Muvizu’s animation engine is ideal for storytellers, animators, teachers and businesses looking to engage, enchant and delight audiences with animated content.