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10/10/2012 15:10:05

Marco_D
Marco_D
Posts: 582
I will ask the team to get right on it

You can forward the documents to: no_way@muvizu.com hehehehe.

Cheers,
Marco
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16/10/2012 19:59:10

dwino
dwino
Posts: 56
So on a very practical level what is the likely path you will take to getting props in hand?

I know that the Unreal engine was meant at first for shoot em ups, and as such they are used to having weapons in hand. Per the following webpage, there are difficulties in having the guns leave the hand in holstering and reloading animations:
http://udn.epicgames.com/Three/CreatingAnimations.html

Do we need the props to leave hands? They don't in your musical instruments. Might you worry about those sorts of animations later and give us some wrenches, hammers, and vodka bottles to hold first?
Even if you do have some visual glitches while the prop leaves the hands, that can be worked around A LOT EASIER than not being able to hold props and having to work around that in the story. Same holds true with your concerns about scaling. I really wouldn't care if the props and prop animations ONLY worked well with the standard sized character.

I have received so many private messages from users who are eager for props to appear in Muvizu that it's not even funny. People are a little nervous about broadcasting their desire out in the open for one reason or another, but let me impress upon you: having some hand held props in one shape or another is the foremost desire in Muvizu users' minds. They are tired of creating visual work arounds, that take too much time and still fall just short of feeling true. Even worse is a common situation where a user will avoid including vital story points in the first place, because they require holding something.

Seriously...you gave us a microphone, now give us a pencil and a nice little cup. May our cups runneth over.
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16/10/2012 21:02:59

urbanlamb
urbanlamb
(Account inactive)
Posts: 1796
people dont like getting flamed so forums are for those with flame retardent suits even this one hehe. In any event yes hand held props of some sort (of course i lean towards a system the likes of which I see in iclone) but anything that can be done would help. My most recent "annoyance" was around a telephone conversation which I could not leave out of the story I did not like my work arounds I had a pick up and hang up telephone animation with no loop to hold the phone and of course had to create the phone receiver and fart around and in the end my solution was sort of lack lustre lol but one does the best they can with the tools they have. Hopefully a few new tools are possible.
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17/10/2012 06:22:40

ukBertyMuvizu mogulExperimental user
ukBerty
Posts: 976
At the risk of just repeating myself....

ukBerty wrote:
I'm wondering if we're all looking for the perfect "works in all situations" solution rather than just getting something that can be useful. I know that Muvizu don't like compromises but we can take a method that is not perfect and could produce some odd results and just make the best of it. Trust us.

I am struggling to see the problem with having an attached item property to the hand with rotation and location controls. Look at the axe in the head for a reference - we want that but for hands and our own objects (and for head whilst you're at it !).

We would pose a character and stick something in their hand, or attach a handbag so they could walk with it. All the technology already seems to be there.

Yes you could put the handbag upside down so it looks wrong. Yes some animations would look wrong because the gravity was incorrect, but that's down to us to make sure it all works and we avoid such things. There are so many things you can do already to break the rules of the universe - you just have to make sure you don't.

I know it's not the perfect solution, but I think it'd be 80% there and we could do so much with it.

Please can we have that. Please......
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17/10/2012 21:54:43

ziggy72Muvizu mogulExperimental user
ziggy72
Posts: 1988
What He Said Thumbs Up
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18/10/2012 20:25:52

dwino
dwino
Posts: 56
i agree

I'm with ukBerty. Musical instruments naturally won't work in all situations, yet they are there and have been there for months, maybe years now. Would love 5 common objects. Heck, I would love a universal object that is swappable from an object pull-down list. I don't care as much if there are some cases where the hand goes through the prop or vise versa.

Camera angles are for that. That's a workaround I can handle since the object will move with the hand. Current workarounds aren't doable.
edited by dwino on 18/10/2012
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18/10/2012 21:10:04

MrDrWho13Muvizu mogulExperimental user
MrDrWho13
Posts: 2221
i agreeWhat He SaidWave
We need these objects ASAP, and we don't care if they don't work in every situation, as long as they move with the hand!
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18/10/2012 21:19:40

DreekoMuvizu mogulExperimental user
Dreeko
Posts: 1258
It does seem odd that after all this time the basics of general everyday actions (eg. eating, drinking, using a phone, writing etc) have not been coupled with the simplest of accessories. As has already been pointed out the tech is there! We have head attachments, waist, back, and wrist attachments so why cant we have the obvious ones (knifes, forks,phones etc) just slightly lower that the wrists an placed in the hands?

Well I imagine the answer is this - The powers that be want us to have the best animations to complement the hand held objects and that means finding a way to make the existing animations work with the hand poses required for all the different objects we stamp our feet for.

If we selected a mobile phone for a character and then direct as normal with the existing animations we would find the characters waving their arms around and extending their fingers as they normally do, which would just look weird.

I would like to see the objects appear in the characters hands as much as anyone but I want to see it achieved properly.

I feel that the object holding feature should come with a system which allows us to use the animations that we have available (conversational, laughing etc) but has poses that can be maintained for the relevant objects throughout.
The obvious example is a character talking on the phone and walking around moving his head and arms as he explains things to whoever is on the other end.
Limb targeting would be nice too incidentally!
Imagine someone pointing at an object as it moves from one side of the set to another and the pointing arm following it around.
Yeh limb/head targeting would be cool... but that leads on to camera targeting I suppose

...I'm stopping here before I lapse into one of my old feature requesting fits!

....sigh
D
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18/10/2012 22:10:59

urbanlamb
urbanlamb
(Account inactive)
Posts: 1796
unfortunately if they want their product to look good forcing people to do odd workarounds that kinda well are not great will make the product look also not good. Finger movement is great however right now we are trying to do it without finger movement and have the items not attached and using the object motion properties to try to capture an affect as best possible. Anyone inspecting muvizu will not know exactly why it looks like it does and think that is how muvizu works and make more faces then if the fingers were not curled .. However the fingers for things like pick up the phone and put down the phone are already posed. For some reason they put pick up and hang up into one animation and had no hold loops forcing people to use things like the dj pose making it look even more messy.

Anyhow I want to see objects link to the hands this is what iclone does you can move around with the object in space etc of course they added puppeterring later on and I hate holding up one piece of software as a comparison but since everyone is suggesting these things and they are available in other softwares one needs to shall we say keep up. That being said muvizu is better at keeping up then other companies so for a free for non commercial use product its great. As a person who enjoys using muvizu I of course want to see it do more. I dont know why object linking is not something that is included or why they have animations to match objects which dont exist lol it would be nice to see these things in place. The head and eye movement is great and i was shocked to see it in muvizu however it begs why is that the only puppeteering available in muvizu? It seems to me that moving the arms in the same manner is within grasp (maybe I am wrong lol I am not a coder just an end user who has been around this type of software for more time then I would like to admit hehe)
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18/10/2012 22:32:24

dwino
dwino
Posts: 56
If some animations would look weird with the cell phone prop, then a director would have the personal choice of not pairing that animation with that particular prop. Or similar to the way seated vs. standing animations work, some animations could be blocked from being paired with certain props.

Overall, the results could be restricted as they are with Musical Instruments in order to yield something that does look proper. So the director and software product don't get bad reputations. (Though there are ways to make iClon_ look bad regardless of their hard work in development.)
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