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14/02/2013 17:00:20

KerryK
KerryK
(Account inactive)
Posts: 176
Hi Muvizuers,

Every day we're asked to grant commercial Muvizu licences. Some people simply ask for permission, while others request 'premium' features such as watermark removal and non-standard render sizes. We get approached by users, companies, non-profit organisations, charities, students, teachers and hobbyists.

Your feedback also tells us that you are bamboozled by our current commercial terms of use. We don't blame you; they're not helpful to inspiring Muvizu money-makers.

So, in light of all that we're thinking of changing our terms to make it easier for people to use Muvizu professionally. We're also open to the idea of spin-off products or features to complement the free version of Muvizu for commercial projects.

So, we would like to ask some questions:

  • How can we improve Muvizu's terms for commercial projects?
  • What features do you need to make money from Muvizu?
  • If there were premium products which sat alongside the free version of Muvizu - products that were interesting to commercial users - how would you feel about that? Have you got any advice for us around pricing?
Tell us about other software you like, use professionally and applaud their approach.


Yours, all ears


The Muvizu Team.
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14/02/2013 17:36:00

urbanlamb
urbanlamb
(Account inactive)
Posts: 1796
KerryK wrote:
Hi Muvizuers,

Every day we're asked to grant commercial Muvizu licences. Some people simply ask for permission, while others request 'premium' features such as watermark removal and non-standard render sizes. We get approached by users, companies, non-profit organisations, charities, students, teachers and hobbyists.

Your feedback also tells us that you are bamboozled by our current commercial terms of use. We don't blame you; they're not helpful to inspiring Muvizu money-makers.

So, in light of all that we're thinking of changing our terms to make it easier for people to use Muvizu professionally. We're also open to the idea of spin-off products or features to complement the free version of Muvizu for commercial projects.

So, we would like to ask some questions:

  • How can we improve Muvizu's terms for commercial projects?
  • What features do you need to make money from Muvizu?
  • If there were premium products which sat alongside the free version of Muvizu - products that were interesting to commercial users - how would you feel about that? Have you got any advice for us around pricing?
Tell us about other software you like, use professionally and applaud their approach.


Yours, all ears


The Muvizu Team.


oh my goodness thanks for this post. I am between a rock and a hard place right now worrying if someone is going to sue me haha.

I am not interested in making a million bucks from it but at the same time if I do make a buck I dont want to feel as if I am doing something wrong by doing so. Recently I had to create a video on a very dry subject for a non profit organization and because of the worries of restriction and the fact they want to collect donations for community projects (eg playstructure replacement) I had to create it in a piece of software that grants me a commercial re-use licence.

I am not completely worried about watermark although removing it would make it feel like my creations are not the property of muvizu when it comes to something I have written, created most of the assets for etc gotten licensed music etc.

If there was some middle ground for this a fee for use copy with a suitable eula to go with it. I am no lawyer and I dont know where to start with this other then to point out the eula of other companies doing the same thing and how they deal with it.

http://www.reallusion.com/Reallusion_EULA.pdf

I have a few issues with the present eula of muvizu

1) I have like many people had to at times police my own content and I can't control the great internet of doom so I am almost feeling liable when someone rips off my content and tries to sell it or use it to make money which I have had done with videos at least twice in this last year. My only remedy is to issue a dmca takedown notice which is fine but I have a giant muvizu watermark on it and so it makes it hard at times and on top of it if muvizu sees my work with ads on it that I have not given permission for them to rip off are they going to come after me for the money?

2) This is regarding youtube and it makes it very difficult again if your channel is not dedicated to one thing. Even if you do grant me license in the present system I would have to keep complicated spread sheets in order to decide how much money I made off each video unfortunately assuming I can figure out how to make the youtube system give me information that detailed so the choice is to just not bother. If I intend to use it for commercial use I will use another software to avoid the headache of it all.

3) My own IP and writing stories and producing full feature films - The muvizu watermark takes away my ownsership of it even if i created all the objects and wrote the story and the music and hired people for the voices etc. The watermark is for me a deterent to making a completely original work in muvizu

So I was hoping for a license not aimed at large enterprises but more at little one man shows like myself and about the only thing I can think of is to request a fee for use version. I am pretty sure that you will have a small stampede on your hands with me leading the way. I could be wrong though Big Grin
edited by urbanlamb on 14/02/2013
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14/02/2013 19:37:54

ziggy72Muvizu mogulExperimental user
ziggy72
Posts: 1988
It might be simplistic, but my requirements would be this :

No watermark.

Clear fixed 'cut' percentage to give to Muvizu on money generated (because there's no watermark), or a higher one-off payment which entitles you to sell your creations without any further Muvizu involvement.

Everything else is secondary, really. Be nice to have higher resolutions, extra bits (like what Zubox obviously has), and the like, but the watermark/cut thing is the bit that myself (and I imagine most people) care about.

Thing is, how do you decide how much money has been made by a particular clip? No idea. Does Youtube or Vimeo give you this kind of information? Does it apply to each clip, or the whole channel? Is that for the UK only or overseas too? It's a minefield of complications as soon as you bring third parties into it. If you could buy a watermark free/fixed price version, those complications pretty much disappear (hopefully!). Just my tuppence
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14/02/2013 19:55:49

EEFilmzExperimental user
EEFilmz
Posts: 397
ziggy72 wrote:
It might be simplistic, but my requirements would be this :

No watermark.

Clear fixed 'cut' percentage to give to Muvizu on money generated (because there's no watermark), or a higher one-off payment which entitles you to sell your creations without any further Muvizu involvement.

Everything else is secondary, really. Be nice to have higher resolutions, extra bits (like what Zubox obviously has), and the like, but the watermark/cut thing is the bit that myself (and I imagine most people) care about.

Thing is, how do you decide how much money has been made by a particular clip? No idea. Does Youtube or Vimeo give you this kind of information? Does it apply to each clip, or the whole channel? Is that for the UK only or overseas too? It's a minefield of complications as soon as you bring third parties into it. If you could buy a watermark free/fixed price version, those complications pretty much disappear (hopefully!). Just my tuppence


Ziggy from what I've read on Youtube, and what others told me, is yes Youtube can monetzie the videos you choose adn thre is a tracking page so you can see which videos generate ca$h and which ones don't etc. However, I have been told that when it comes time for Youtube to choke out a check to you it's hard to collect from them..whatever little money your videos do in fact earn which I assume isn't much from Youtube. I myself haven't made videos for profit, although that would be nice, and I know very little about it. I just create animationz for fun.
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14/02/2013 19:59:31

EEFilmzExperimental user
EEFilmz
Posts: 397
urbanlamb wrote:

1) I have like many people had to at times police my own content and I can't control the great internet of doom so I am almost feeling liable when someone rips off my content and tries to sell it or use it to make money which I have had done with videos at least twice in this last year. My only remedy is to issue a dmca takedown notice which is fine but I have a giant muvizu watermark on it and so it makes it hard at times and on top of it if muvizu sees my work with ads on it that I have not given permission for them to rip off are they going to come after me for the money?



Urban how do you know when someone is trying to rip off your video for profi? I have no knowledge of this and I too would be concerned and want to monitor that IF I made $$ for vids/animationz
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14/02/2013 20:12:33

urbanlamb
urbanlamb
(Account inactive)
Posts: 1796
EEFilmz wrote:
urbanlamb wrote:

1) I have like many people had to at times police my own content and I can't control the great internet of doom so I am almost feeling liable when someone rips off my content and tries to sell it or use it to make money which I have had done with videos at least twice in this last year. My only remedy is to issue a dmca takedown notice which is fine but I have a giant muvizu watermark on it and so it makes it hard at times and on top of it if muvizu sees my work with ads on it that I have not given permission for them to rip off are they going to come after me for the money?



Urban how do you know when someone is trying to rip off your video for profi? I have no knowledge of this and I too would be concerned and want to monitor that IF I made $$ for vids/animationz



two ways
1) a friend sees it and mails me
2) the video comes up as recommended to me as an interest on a youtube sidebar or on google i just happen to see it. I would go through google to see how my stuff was doing search engine wise and pull up my stuff on someone elses site.

this happened to me twice last year but thankfully not over a muvizu video if it was a muvizu video I would be totally well screwed and that is why I am careful about what I do with what software package. I do not know how I could issue any sort of take down notice with that watermark there and it makes my head explode everytime I think about it. I also had a friend want to remix a muvizu video I made but when he read the terms he changed his mind. He composes music and wanted to use muvizu footage of mine and do a music edit. It would have been cool, but alas he only works commercially and not for free so oh well on that one
edited by urbanlamb on 16/02/2013
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14/02/2013 20:18:03

urbanlamb
urbanlamb
(Account inactive)
Posts: 1796
EEFilmz wrote:
ziggy72 wrote:
It might be simplistic, but my requirements would be this :

No watermark.

Clear fixed 'cut' percentage to give to Muvizu on money generated (because there's no watermark), or a higher one-off payment which entitles you to sell your creations without any further Muvizu involvement.

Everything else is secondary, really. Be nice to have higher resolutions, extra bits (like what Zubox obviously has), and the like, but the watermark/cut thing is the bit that myself (and I imagine most people) care about.

Thing is, how do you decide how much money has been made by a particular clip? No idea. Does Youtube or Vimeo give you this kind of information? Does it apply to each clip, or the whole channel? Is that for the UK only or overseas too? It's a minefield of complications as soon as you bring third parties into it. If you could buy a watermark free/fixed price version, those complications pretty much disappear (hopefully!). Just my tuppence


Ziggy from what I've read on Youtube, and what others told me, is yes Youtube can monetzie the videos you choose adn thre is a tracking page so you can see which videos generate ca$h and which ones don't etc. However, I have been told that when it comes time for Youtube to choke out a check to you it's hard to collect from them..whatever little money your videos do in fact earn which I assume isn't much from Youtube. I myself haven't made videos for profit, although that would be nice, and I know very little about it. I just create animationz for fun.



Youtube is very hard on independant creators its really a headache to be one and so most independants are being forced into a content aggregation network. It would also be far too complicated to seperate which ad earned what revenue on what clicks as all the ads are run using an auction bidding system its a veritable nightmare and not something worth bothering with. Top it off with the fact that there are 3 types of ads now truestream, instream and someother stream. How you split 50 cents becomes more trouble then its worth.
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16/02/2013 03:10:25

InsaneHamster
InsaneHamster
Posts: 272
I have been waiting for this topic since Muvizu hinted at it during Machinma Expo

the the easiest way is to go with a one time buy with an open license to make money off your videos. but what would the price be?

You could go with a "Hey here are some different commercial pacakages" like
1 year deal for 99.00
6 month deal for 50.00
or something like that. Personally i would rather buy something out right and not have to worry about the details or time frames.

Free versions should get a watermark it's free after all your also trying to make money and making money is going to come from A) selling commercial licenses with current Muvizu or B) Selling Muvizu as a stand alone application with a licensing aggreement to let the purchaser make money off there videos.
which if you go with B then you have to discuss the whole do you buy Muvizu with free updates or do you have to buy Muvizu everytime a new release is out?

Just my two dollars worth lol.
I would buy a commercial license out right without a watermark if the price is reasonable and I honestly don't even know what that price would be.

okay I am done for now.
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16/02/2013 21:33:44

EEFilmzExperimental user
EEFilmz
Posts: 397
I remember Muvizu said they were gonnna remain FREE which was one of the things that brought me to find it in the first place. I love the pprogram, but it has alot of capabilities it needs to impliment, and impprovements to be made, esp on it's eas of use with 3rd party apps - I still don't have success bringing in 3d objects and it's hard to go through a million steps to create certain effects. It'd be nice to make money with it if I knew of a way etc, but I use it for fun. I thinnk it should stay FREE. I'd also like to see an integrated video editor within muvizu....the more i can accomplish within muvizu the better it is...period. I'd also like characters able to grab/hold/carry objects. my 2 cents - EEF
edited by EEFilmz on 16/02/2013
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17/02/2013 00:29:47

WozToonsExperimental user
WozToons
Posts: 494
I am on a very tight budget due to ill health. ( No job ).
I would like at some stage to make money in the digital world.
I would just like to thank the wonderful people at Muvizu for making it free which means that folks like me can "afford" to pursue their dreams and release their creativity.
The problem lies in the fact that I have no funds to contribute "up front".


If there are any spin offs I would be grateful if you could consider their affordability for people with very limited incomes. I can afford to spend approximately £ 40 - £ 60 maximum on software per year. Perhaps a small monthly subscription is worth considering for any "Premium" features.
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17/02/2013 12:26:31

gimmick
gimmick
Posts: 179
I think that a director needs to be the owner of his movies. So I paid around $100 for softs like Moviestorm/iClone and I am the owner of my movies. Of course, I must name Moviestorm/iClone in the credits. That's a simple deal. No percentage. No problems if I show my movies for the next 50 years

So I propose:
- Free version of Muvizu, with watermark. For non commercial uses (including earning $0.00 with youtube!)

- Commercial version of Muvizu, without watermark, with an unlimited licence for use in movies. Muvizu named in the credits. For example see http://www.moviestorm.co.uk/hub/legal/eula

Idem for the additional contents:
- Free version with watermark.
- Commercial version without watermark, with an unlimited licence for use in movies.

I have no ideas about educational licences.

NB: I think that "Catching objects" is an essential fonctionality in Muvizu for create commercial movies.
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17/02/2013 17:35:51

EEFilmzExperimental user
EEFilmz
Posts: 397
gimmick wrote:
I think that a director needs to be the owner of his movies. So I paid around $100 for softs like Moviestorm/iClone and I am the owner of my movies. Of course, I must name Moviestorm/iClone in the credits. That's a simple deal. No percentage. No problems if I show my movies for the next 50 years

So I propose:
- Free version of Muvizu, with watermark. For non commercial uses (including earning $0.00 with youtube!)

- Commercial version of Muvizu, without watermark, with an unlimited licence for use in movies. Muvizu named in the credits. For example see http://www.moviestorm.co.uk/hub/legal/eula

Idem for the additional contents:
- Free version with watermark.
- Commercial version without watermark, with an unlimited licence for use in movies.

I have no ideas about educational licences.

NB: I think that "Catching objects" is an essential fonctionality in Muvizu for create commercial movies.


I agree with Gimmick, and have it be the Users choice of which one to use, although then Muvizu is just like many others (video editors do this) out there. I will say, if Muvizu itself wants to make money to fund improvements for it's users, (and this is just my opinion), keep it FREE for individual Users like now, but then Licence the software to companies to use w/o the watermark, charge the companies for use..they have the big $ anyway right? I'm serious though, maybe I watch "Shark Tank" too much but that's how Millionaires are made...Licencing Agreements with corporations are where it's at, but that's something for Muvizu to educate themselves on. Play with the big boys for the big ca$h and then create a whole new set of video tutorials for all the new features and capabilities of Muvizu. This way, it'll free up the time Muvizu has to create new ideas. Muvizu will have the funds to make he software ideas we all want, but who's complaining right? It's pretty awesome as it is. I still like the idea of FREE Muvizu and I hate it when I see programs that have all this cool stuff but I can't afford it...3DS comes to mind. THEN you the vendor have to worry about "cracked" versions getting out there and that's a mess...So now I'm just rambling because I need food so I must go eat but you get the idea lol....
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18/02/2013 03:16:30

InsaneHamster
InsaneHamster
Posts: 272
Muvizu is I think geared more towards the home animator. It has a very
long ways to go to be geared towards something someone like Pixar would
use.
So with that in mind the pricing should be geared towards the home
animator who still has to work a full time job or whatever.
After all we would still be very dependant on Muvizu to creat characters
and actions that the regular user can't do. This is one major aspect that
will prevent big corporations like Pixar from using Muvizu.So custom made
movies with custom characters isn't possible.(which has been my biggest
concern about the future of Muvizu)We as users are very demanding for
content being added lol.

I think you should keep a free version as this is your bussiness card.
You can have another pro version that does have some added bells and
whistles. this would intice people to buy the pro version.


as for licensing agreement.
I have no problem with putting in the credits that Mivuzu was used.
This in turn helps promote Muvizu.
I do think it would be easier for everyone around to have just a one time
standard licensing. You could go with a licensing per video.
what I mean is this. I make a video for someone and they are going to pay
me an amount. I then e-mail Muvizu and tell them I would like to buy a
license. Lets say Muvizu has a standard licensing fee of $20.00 per Video.
I pay Muvizu the $20.00 dollars and then I can render my video or make
a DVD or whatever maybe a code is
generated that you add to a window that pops up that takes away the
watermark.
Let's face it if a person starts making money using Muvizu then they
should upgrade to a pro version.
Or pay for a one time licensing fee or what ever Muvizu comes up with.
Just saying "Hey you made a free program keep it this way and just let
us make money
off of it!" isn't going to work due to the fact the money used from licensing or from someone
purchasing a pro version is what's going to keep Muvizu updated with new content.
They can't always rely on private parties to keep forking out money with
no return. After all Muvizu is also here to make money.
A subcription might be a good idea Woz. A person could pay lets
say $15.00 a month $180.00 a year.(I believe this is about the same cost
as most online games charge) and be able to make videos that they can
profit off of, and removes the watermark, has some bells and whistles.
If a person just wants to make a video for youtube then they can use the
free version.
An email would be sent to you stating the licensing agreement and by
paying the 15.00 dollar subscription you abide by the following agreament.
Like adding some where in the credits that Muvizu was used. The watermark will be removed as long as you the user pays the monthly fee of 15.00
dollars. At anytime you no longer wish to pay the the monthly fee the
watermark will be reinstated and add features turned off. etc. etc. etc.
Just don't get away from the idea of you being there for the little guy.
After all it's the little guys who do most of the promoting for you.
Also the fact that users are very dependant on the Muvizu staff to create
certain things in the program that we can't which should keep the price
of Muvizu down considably. You can't charge someone what Maya charges for example.
Also Muvizu should make it clear that it isn't responsible for someone
trying to make a video off of copyrighted material. That the maker
of such said videos has sole responsiblilty.
just some ideas to toss around Mr.Hamster
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19/02/2013 18:20:57

urbanlamb
urbanlamb
(Account inactive)
Posts: 1796
just commenting on some of the ideas

Perpetual fees to keep things watermark free - dont agree with that for the reason that well once its done its done basically the reasons behind removing a watermark revolve around ownsership issues. There is a point at which although the engine is used there is only so far one can push that watermark Basicaly you do the work and distribute the content removal of the watermark is twofold - If you go to the trouble of making productions writing it and perhaps even paying for models and stuff an original work remains such and so once its created you move in. Asking someone to perpetually pay to keep something they made as theirs is well unfair. Basically your forcing them to remove it from the internet if that is your focus and if they decided to give out copies on dvd even if they didnt charge they would have to run around and ask for them all back so they could give out a watermarked copy or just destroy them. In Any event one has to consider cost

the idea of paying 20 per video is a bit high as well there is an online service that offers such services and they charge by the size not the video. Anyhow I think at this point really muvizu has to consider who is going to pay for this type of software and why. It will never be a big time corporation or someone with bucket loads of money at their disposal as they would take another route most likely. At the same time if you go to the trouble and time and effort to make something that you actually want to remove the watermark from then its theirs once you let them have it so slapping a watermark on after the fact is well.. I dont even know if its legal. Anyhow for the most part we need different tiers of access

free is well free and should remain as such but the gap between free and enterprise version is well a lot of us are writing to muvizu to try to create something "not free" and are just getting silence or agreements are being made and then muvizu changes its mind (well digimania) leaving the creator with a project they put a lot of work into sort of hanging.

So we need a pro version for the single user - in 99.9% of cases a pro user is not going to ever roll in bucket loads of money but at the present time what muvizu is doing is limiting the use of its software and in a case where they could be making money right now they are in my opinion just throwing it away as we spend it on other companies. I am just a hobbyist but even then hobbyist do pay money to feed their hobbies. Last year I spent about $1000.00 on iclone software alone. Lets ignore the hardware I purchased to feed the hobby. I am not rich, but I dont smoke and i dont drink so I need one vice and my vice is pixels. I would be more then happy to funnel some of that money to muvizu for my hobby in exchange for the lack of a watermark which complicates my life to no end even as a hobbyist.
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20/02/2013 12:54:53

chucklesExperimental user
chuckles
Posts: 126
Why ZuboxTV ?
Yesterday, in the Gallery there were 11 out of 16 of them! They Have Special Characters made for them, and most of all, in my opinion, they provide no innovation, and very little humour!
They are watched by a lot of people too, on the day they are put up. How Come ?
dreeko, urbanlamb, and many others provide much better more worthy stuff, and they do it alone!
Please explain.
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20/02/2013 16:21:28

artpenMuvizu mogulExperimental user
artpen
Posts: 362
Ok, my thoughts...

First of all, I've really enjoyed the Muvizu 3d adventure.

But, like all things, big changes are coming, and them changes might not be free.
and guess what, bring it on!

I'll keep this simple, keep a free basic version with the watermark to get new users up to speed and to improve their movie skills,.
Bring out a Pro version with all the trimmings... Price?? Let's just say if holding
objects, better character creation, custom animations if possible, I think most
Users would stump up 60-80 quid??

I don't think monthly rent type payments work either, just give me a one off pro
Version any day, then maybe a reduced price for a big yearly update.

artpen
edited by artpen on 20/02/2013
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21/02/2013 03:17:12

InsaneHamster
InsaneHamster
Posts: 272
I personally don't like the subcription Idea either. I like the idea of a pro version with a licensing fee that goes with it. I think maybe i am wrong but this would make the most sense or just stay free but let users buy a one time licensing fee. I would love to hear some more imput from Muvizu on this subject.
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21/02/2013 20:19:31

gimmick
gimmick
Posts: 179
Hello, I think that the price of the pro version should stay affordable. The reason is:
yes, everything is very nice in Muvizu but as everybody can use it, the director should be very very creative to get an original & interesting movie.

Another problem is the paternity of characters. For example, if somebody wants to create an hero, he can just personalize: For example, yellow costum with purple strips and green cape. OK. But, everybody can copy this personalisation. So who is the owner of the character?
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27/02/2013 22:02:07

Dannynw23
Dannynw23
Posts: 11
I agree with InsaneHamster I dont like the subcription Idea either I think you should pay one off payment for a pro version and i would'nt mind paying a few quid for updates.
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03/03/2013 15:47:22

adam_knox
adam_knox
Posts: 6
I really like Muvizu, but I would not suggest a subscription fee. Perhaps a yearly renewal fee that is less than the initial purchase.

Here's my situation: I'm a dreamer, I would really love to make a movie or at least a 3-6 minute animated short. In reality, I have neither the experience, time, nor the actual story(s) to do so. But every time I see the Academy Awards for best animated shorts, or Dreeko's and other Moguls' movies I get sparked to make something. Its the idea, the possibility that gets me hooked. I would probably pay once for the software but then eventually rationalize that paying for Muvizu isn't the wisest idea (despite how fantastic of a product it is!). However, if its kept free, there could be a chance I make a short that may go viral (like the extranormal iPhone 4 video) or at least get popular enough to get someone to tinker. That's how I found Muvizu, I made some fun shorts with Xtranormal, but then they started charging and I discovered you guys. If you can sell a package with "possibilities" my imagination might make the purchase.

Here's what I think would be great to purchase:
  • More base characters with different styling (the heros body structure and style was a great addition for variety!)
  • More objects and sets



If you really want to do a monthly fee system, what about a token economy? Users who make objects and sets can "sell" them for tokens (which are allotted to users in their monthly fee package). Then Muvizu can "buy back" tokens at a reduced rate or offer prizes/features when they are cashed in. This may increase community activity and get individuals motivated to make content you guys may not have the time for, which could really increase the appeal of Muvizu with its depth of accessories.


As a non-animator who putzes occasionally, I would pay $50 (USD) once for bonus features. If I actually made a short, I would probably pay $80 (USD) for the watermark to be removed when it airs on the Oscars. You guys would get the first shout out in the thank-you speech! =D
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