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12/04/2013 10:13:57

NeilExperimental userMuvizu staff
Neil
Posts: 396
I've started this thread to discuss suggestions on how to improve the new timeline in Muvizu:Play 1.0. The discussion has been taking place in the v1.0 feedback thread, but the timeline has created enough discussion on it's own that I thought it deserved it's own thread. We can use the original thread to discuss other feedback from v1.0 without getting bogged down on the timeline.
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12/04/2013 10:33:20

NeilExperimental userMuvizu staff
Neil
Posts: 396
urbanlamb wrote:
Anyhow I am beginning to worry my muvizu days are over as it seems that my please to have a functional complicated timeline are going unheard.

Urbanlamb, your pleas aren't going unheard. I've responded in the forum with a long post detailing exactly where we are, what we're trying to do, and specifically asking the community for their input on how to improve things for you. Please continue to contribute constructively.


Dreeko wrote:
Surely it would be better to only have the timeline for an object etc created once it has been animated ( or directed as we call it) rather than the second in appears on set?

Dreeko, that does sound ideal in principal. We tried something similar to that in development, but there were issues with it. I'll revisit it and see if we can get it working.



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12/04/2013 10:34:37

ukBertyMuvizu mogulExperimental user
ukBerty
Posts: 976
Sadly, like Ziggy, as one of the heavier users it's very difficult for me to start evaluating it as it's too cumbersome and slow to operate at the moment. If we can have a release so that only the animated objects, lights and effects appear then it may shrink and speed it up enough to start playing.


I'm sure I will have stuff to say, but it's not until you start using something that you find out the pluses and minuses.
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12/04/2013 10:45:53

MrDrWho13Muvizu mogulExperimental user
MrDrWho13
Posts: 2220
Well, here are things that will improve the timeline:
  • All options opened and closed by user then saved to set
  • Show all and Hide all buttons
  • Larger play and record buttons
  • Possibly have play and record buttons above sub menus (like example)
  • Only things animated to be displayed on timeline

Have I missed anything?
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12/04/2013 11:12:18

DreekoMuvizu mogulExperimental user
Dreeko
Posts: 1258
Ok then,

Here we go!

I propose that the only items that show on the timeline are those which have been animated.

I cannot imagine any reason to have items shown that are never going to be changed or moved over time


The timeline should be for time management and nothing more!


If users wish to see a list of all the items contained within their sets, they have the scene window for that purpose



Here's a quick timeline mockup!



As you can see I have moved the navigation controls to the top and increased the size.
Also at the end of the timeline I have placed an icon to allow the user to delete the timeline.
The right click to reset option that exists is going to be overlooked and will only create numerous forum post with users asking how they can delete unwanted recordings. This icon is a must!

This is enough to start off with. I'll look at the filter feature later!

Cheers
D
edited by Dreeko on 12/04/2013
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12/04/2013 11:20:02

DreekoMuvizu mogulExperimental user
Dreeko
Posts: 1258
Neil wrote:
I'll revisit it and see if we can get it working.


Good man!
edited by Dreeko on 12/04/2013
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12/04/2013 11:27:53

MrDrWho13Muvizu mogulExperimental user
MrDrWho13
Posts: 2220
Following Dreeko's example, here is the new timeline concept:


As you can see I've added the right click 'add to timeline option. Although it would be completely useless as it's automatic. Duhh

I have also added the 'show all' and 'hide all' buttons at the bottom.
edited by MrDrWho13 on 12/04/2013
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12/04/2013 13:52:04

urbanlamb
urbanlamb
(Account inactive)
Posts: 1796
Neil wrote:
urbanlamb wrote:
Anyhow I am beginning to worry my muvizu days are over as it seems that my please to have a functional complicated timeline are going unheard.

Urbanlamb, your pleas aren't going unheard. I've responded in the forum with a long post detailing exactly where we are, what we're trying to do, and specifically asking the community for their input on how to improve things for you. Please continue to contribute constructively.


Dreeko wrote:
Surely it would be better to only have the timeline for an object etc created once it has been animated ( or directed as we call it) rather than the second in appears on set?

Dreeko, that does sound ideal in principal. We tried something similar to that in development, but there were issues with it. I'll revisit it and see if we can get it working.





I have contributed constructively however its not being seen I have created something of a mockup of what would work unfortunately its been dubbed as to hard for newbies in any event continue on at present what I am seeing as solutions will not solve the problem and only adds buttons which people wont actually be able to use due to the layout.

at present the interface provided with all those menus is simply not going to work as people are still limited due to the layout .

I am pretty sure this is constructive
my diagram is in another thread unfortunately until the entire thing is slimmed down and all that stuff on the left hand side is converted to buttons and those toggles are removed it will really be unsuable. Basically your at the limitations of your interface without a redesign. So i see no point in added these features to the timeline and simply making it more bulky and laggy and the best solution is to simply roll back to the old set up and leave the wave file diagram in and snapping.

Anything else is simply a huge waste of space and making it harder to work with


for this timeline to work I need to be able to single out all the actions of a character or all the walks. The collapsing action of the filter is very difficult and it takes about 10 minutes to uncheck a single item and I dont see this as going away as long as your using this method of dealing with the assets. If pop out menus are created for objects, lights character all on their own menu that is large so that if we have 200 objects on a set and it doesnt take us 10 minutes to uncheck a box this would help a lot.

The left hand menu is simply not going to work not when your starting to try to find things to add and use

If i have say 10 characters doing something (something I have done in the past) I need to say isolate all the actions if i am constantly collapsing and expanding menus its very difficult to work with

So I need a menu that will pop out on its own to select characters in an order which I choose (say its a fight and i have sets of two people fighting each other and trading punches) I need to be able to isolate them in pairs by selecting them in a certain order from a menu. Then I am only working on actions so I need 10 action bars for 10 characters in my timeline and nothing more.

So that i can synchronise it. If say I need to then add motions I need to be able to go back to that initial menu with the characters and select the motions so that I can lump all the movements together so I can work with those.

Basically we need to mix and match this and the interface need to be made to allow this mixing and matching.
edited by urbanlamb on 12/04/2013
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12/04/2013 13:53:42

urbanlamb
urbanlamb
(Account inactive)
Posts: 1796
ukBerty wrote:
Sadly, like Ziggy, as one of the heavier users it's very difficult for me to start evaluating it as it's too cumbersome and slow to operate at the moment. If we can have a release so that only the animated objects, lights and effects appear then it may shrink and speed it up enough to start playing.


I'm sure I will have stuff to say, but it's not until you start using something that you find out the pluses and minuses.


I would like to reitterate this in a constructive manner.

here is the mockup again in this thread. Unfortunately until your roll back to the previous version nothing much more can be evaluated bugwise. I am unsure of how else to say this to make things anymore constructive. Please roll the timeline back leave in the wavefile diagram and the snapping until a better solution can be found.

http://www.muvizu.com/forum/topic2642-timeline-mockup-i-could-live-with.aspx
edited by urbanlamb on 12/04/2013
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12/04/2013 14:06:16

DreekoMuvizu mogulExperimental user
Dreeko
Posts: 1258
Urbanlamb, I don't think Neil was offended or had the intent to offend you either.

He merely said " Please continue to contribute constructively."
It seemed to me that he was just asking you to carry on offering your suggestions and ideas as you have been doing.


Anyhoo..back to the timeline...
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12/04/2013 14:11:08

urbanlamb
urbanlamb
(Account inactive)
Posts: 1796
Dreeko wrote:
Urbanlamb, I don't think Neil was offended or had the intent to offend you either.

He merely said " Please continue to contribute constructively."
It seemed to me that he was just asking you to carry on offering your suggestions and ideas as you have been doing.


Anyhoo..back to the timeline...



Yes I have its just I am repeating myself at this point so its feeling a bit frustrating
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12/04/2013 14:22:49

NeilExperimental userMuvizu staff
Neil
Posts: 396
urbanlamb wrote:
Yes I have its just I am repeating myself at this point so its feeling a bit frustrating

We've heard you. Please don't be frustrated, you've made your points very clear and we're working hard to address them.
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12/04/2013 14:27:21

urbanlamb
urbanlamb
(Account inactive)
Posts: 1796
Neil wrote:
urbanlamb wrote:
Yes I have its just I am repeating myself at this point so its feeling a bit frustrating

We've heard you. Please don't be frustrated, you've made your points very clear and we're working hard to address them.



okay thanks

*stops pulling hair out*

very sorry I will be good now Big Grin
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12/04/2013 14:29:10

DreekoMuvizu mogulExperimental user
Dreeko
Posts: 1258
Urbanlamb, I think you have made your point very clearly.

It is interesting to hear everyone's take on how the timeline should be implemented in Muvizu. Hopefully all the suggestion that we pitch in will help to assist in forming the new one, however it looks and performs!


Cheers
D
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12/04/2013 14:40:20

MrDrWho13Muvizu mogulExperimental user
MrDrWho13
Posts: 2220
This is a wild idea, but maybe we could have different timelines and you could choose one style in the app? dunno
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12/04/2013 14:43:39

DreekoMuvizu mogulExperimental user
Dreeko
Posts: 1258
I have seen some timelines out there that just make me want to run away and hide under the bed.
Anime studio (2d animation software) for instance has a timeline that can change from a main timeline to an action timeline etc and you have to be on the right timeline to do the right thing or your work is lost. It's all very confusing and makes you feel like your in the wrong dimension at times.

We are actually quite lucky with the system we have in Muvizu as a lot of the clever stuff happens automatically...And I'm including the timeline in that statement.


Anime studio timeline (one of them!)

edited by Dreeko on 12/04/2013
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12/04/2013 14:55:26

urbanlamb
urbanlamb
(Account inactive)
Posts: 1796
Unfortunately by default the minute you start to add these "advanced features" your having to make things look exactly like that otherwise people are going to be limited in many ways in what they can do. This is the same issue they have with say video editors there are the stripped down non pro versions and then the pro versions made by companies.


If you can't see things and isolate them in a timeline that is by nature now becoming "a pro version timeline" your going to be unable to work with it. So basically we have muvizu implementing "pro" version stuff for "advanced users" and trying to find a way to do that without confusing "new people" by the very nature of what they are trying to do with this advanced timeline they are going to be confusing new people. So we need to be able to turn this feature on. So maybe by default have a "lite" version (basically 23b timeline with the snapping and wave file) and then we need to turn on the "pro timeline" in this way its hidden for new users but there if others need it.

I dont see a way around this sort of thing for "advanced timeline"

here is iclones it works very well it leaves me with room to do things and snaps to the bottom of the scene and when you want to work with it you pull it out into the middle of the window. The asset menus folds into the side


edited by urbanlamb on 12/04/2013
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12/04/2013 15:23:40

DreekoMuvizu mogulExperimental user
Dreeko
Posts: 1258
Agreed.

The more complex things become within Muvizu with the addition of more features and with that more control, then yes the timeline will become more involved.

So getting it right and by that I mean developing it in a way that will accommodate more control in the future would be the best path to take.

Easier said than done though eh?
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12/04/2013 15:33:34

urbanlamb
urbanlamb
(Account inactive)
Posts: 1796
Yes this is not going to be easy or painless but it would bring muvizu to another level leaving it ready to add other bells and whistles once its done
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12/04/2013 15:37:04

MrDrWho13Muvizu mogulExperimental user
MrDrWho13
Posts: 2220
With my 'crazy' idea of having a choice of different timelines, I have created some mock ups:

'Simple' timeline:


Modified Play timeline:
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