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26/02/2014 23:07:07

urbanlamb
urbanlamb
(Account inactive)
Posts: 1796
I just have one more ramble (short one)

The reason I started uploading to muvizu was because of people in the community urging me to. Previous to that I was hogging all my assets for me/myself and I. (sets, objects whatever sometimes I stuff things into sets and other times I just post objects if someone asks for the single object). And the only reason I created the "overload" site was for "mega-sets". Unfortunately my sentiments are fairly close to fazz's because I was not uploading them for me I was uploading them for everyone else.
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26/02/2014 23:42:02

ziggy72Muvizu mogulExperimental user
ziggy72
Posts: 1988
Yeah, I'm not suggesting Urban become the default place for models or anything, just suggesting her kind of site be an approved download source rather than an upload destination. Leave the poor gal in peace, she's under a lot of snow as it is
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27/02/2014 16:20:14

Rocky53204
Rocky53204
Posts: 15
"Direct don't animate." (But only after you have learned 3D creation!) Sending your users to other sites is a sound business decision? I own/use pro versions of Anime Studio, IClone, Crazytalk, etc. Your product is clearly still in a development stage with limited capabilities. The user base you are about to alienate may be your strongest asset. We all know storage has never been cheaper. If your concern is litigation for copyright infringement a simple disclaimer with offer to take down has served others.

As a new user I have donated a few assets. In the current environment I will cease that effort.
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27/02/2014 16:34:33

urbanlamb
urbanlamb
(Account inactive)
Posts: 1796
ziggy72 wrote:
Yeah, I'm not suggesting Urban become the default place for models or anything, just suggesting her kind of site be an approved download source rather than an upload destination. Leave the poor gal in peace, she's under a lot of snow as it is


hehe just thought I would post this because this can be taken literally as well this year

http://ottawa.ctvnews.ca/coldest-ottawa-winter-in-20-years-1.1705321
Any of you people complaining about the rain or that you had to put on a sweater or something this is where I live Big Grin
(yes sorry off topic but ziggy started it) we get harsh winters here but this one is a wiz banger!
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27/02/2014 17:10:57

MrDrWho13Muvizu mogulExperimental user
MrDrWho13
Posts: 2221
Rocky53204 wrote:
"Direct don't animate." (But only after you have learned 3D creation!) Sending your users to other sites is a sound business decision? I own/use pro versions of Anime Studio, IClone, Crazytalk, etc. Your product is clearly still in a development stage with limited capabilities. The user base you are about to alienate may be your strongest asset. We all know storage has never been cheaper. If your concern is litigation for copyright infringement a simple disclaimer with offer to take down has served others.

As a new user I have donated a few assets. In the current environment I will cease that effort.


I have to agree with all the points made here.
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27/02/2014 17:13:10

Rocky53204
Rocky53204
Posts: 15
I live in Wisconsin (USA) where the authorities mandate removal of all ice fishing shanties today. The ice still measures 4 foot thick on many of the Northern Wisconsin lakes.
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27/02/2014 17:44:10

urbanlamb
urbanlamb
(Account inactive)
Posts: 1796
so anyways I will add this after the fact but I was asked to make a telephone with seperate handset receiver and usually I say "sure I will make it and toss it up in the gallery for you" but instead I had to say "um i guess I will send you a drop box link because they just shut down the gallery" I will leave it to that person to volunteeer their info but they didnt see this thread before the asked so tonight I will make him a telephone with seperate handset and only he gets it

I also concure that the remedy for some of what is driving muvizu to make this decision is the take down notice remedy but I know they already have this covered so I am pretty sure its just bandwidth and server space as these databases grow and mushroom over time and its a free service for them eating away at their operation budget unfortunately I dont know the remedy for this other then to create a commercial market set up but I dont think this is what muvizu is up to because the announcement would have been different

anyhow tonight I will do the phone tonight life was too stressful yesterday for this work but, its coming I guess I can create a forum thread for my assets but then I need to worry about finding space on the internet or expand my shop. Last night I was feeling a bit defeated and was considering pulling my shop down because it was merely an overlow extension of the site. Tonight I will see if i can find some cloud space that cost next to nothing to use I have already loaded up some time ago the plugins for cloud hosting expansion packages to speed up my present site but never took the time to actually hook it up cause I didnt really draw the traffic to warrant it. ..
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27/02/2014 19:17:17

tripfreakExperimental user
tripfreak
Posts: 142
@urbanlamb & Rocky,

in case you wonder where your temperatures are - WE have them ! Toast
http://de.nachrichten.yahoo.com/dieser-winter-war-der-viertw-rmste-seit-1881-133822540.html
It's the fourth warmest winter since 1881 here in Germany.

But back to the topic:

If space is really the problem than you could either remove the real huge assets (sorry urban) in order to release more space for a few new contributions (but of course that would also be just a temporary solution).
Or you could at least build a new section under "Get Assets" where picture upload is still allowed but the "producer" finally only sets a link to a free download (e.g. from his Dropbox account, Mediafire etc.) or to an online store of his choice or makes an offer, leaves his email address or whatever.

By doing so the user base will at least stay informed about available assets and where to get them.
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27/02/2014 20:25:52

fazz68
fazz68
(Account inactive)
Posts: 767
why should urbanlamb have to remove her assets? surely thats defeating the object of having an asset page. seeing as she is a major contributor to that page.
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27/02/2014 21:23:53

tripfreakExperimental user
tripfreak
Posts: 142
No, this was just taken as example, because most of her brilliant assets are rather huge.
But as I said, even if she would shift them to her own shop, this would only mean a short time solution.

If Muvizu is not able to offer more space, I see no other choice than to set links in the future.
But it would probably be the best for both producer and user to get these links collected on a certain Muvizu site.
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28/02/2014 00:34:27

urbanlamb
urbanlamb
(Account inactive)
Posts: 1796
my assets are actually smaller then most people's to be honest and they have a size restriction in place on set size so my sets are all the same as everyone elses. Unsure why you would want me to remove stuff but ironically my sets load well because in fact they are well optimized and actually if you look at the size of each object my objects are smaller in size not larger. So basically I squeeze in more for less that is why my sets are so "busy"
edited by urbanlamb on 28/02/2014
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28/02/2014 07:14:36

tripfreakExperimental user
tripfreak
Posts: 142
Sorry, no offence !

I didn't say I want them to be removed but we were asked for constructive suggestions.
And from your offer it seems that you could outsource some of the real big files to your shop (what others might not be able).

Personally, I don't think sets of 50 MB and more are "small" and really good usable inside Muvizu with a normal computer but maybe that's just my impression.
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28/02/2014 10:19:52

toonaramaMuvizu mogulExperimental user
toonarama
Posts: 661
If this is - as many of us are surmising - a financial decision why not take an alternative approach?

The assets made by the community are vital in keeping the animations made in Muvizu retaining some "freshness" and originality. Without them all the videos would start to look too similar. It is the people who have made the effort with sets/costumes/characters that are making the truly impressive videos that are the best advert for the software.

This is especially important due to the fact that very little new asset creation comes out of Muvizu HQ. I know this is because it is a small team with lots to do but it remains a fact.

So my alternative solution would be to:

a) keep hosting the community assets although (much as I appreciate them as a time saver) these could be limited to original work rather than conversions from other formats.

b) Develop more in-house assets which are then sold as extension packs for people that want them.

c) Develop and sell a robust conversion plug-in that could be purchased separately to allow easy and efficient conversion of external model formats into Muvizu accepted formats

Hopefully the costs of developing "b" and "c" with the ongoing costs of "a" would be balanced by the sales from "b" and "c" whilst also ensuring ongoing asset creation.

Some might say people will not be willing to pay but content seems to be where the money lies. Make the animation engine available at a reasonable price and people will pay for additional features and assets. This is happening more and more (eg Reallusion, Daz3D).

I can't help feeling Muvizu is at a crossroads and in danger of taking the wrong direction. It now has customers who have paid for the product and they (as well as prospective new customers) will want to see software that is moving forward both in terms of functionality and available assets. Without this I cannot see how any degree of "amateur" customer base will be sustained.

It really would be useful to provide some information of the roadmap. Or is Muvizu Pro taking up all the resources?

Reallusion have specific posts each year which state "what to expect in (this year) in (this software)" which engenders interest, creates desire and informs their customers (current and prospective) where they are going. Could Muvizu not do the same thing?

I was one of the first Muvizu users and am one of the longest surviving because I love the software so please don't take this too negatively!

edited by toonarama on 28/02/2014
edited by toonarama on 28/02/2014
edited by toonarama on 28/02/2014
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28/02/2014 11:07:40

fazz68
fazz68
(Account inactive)
Posts: 767
What He Said
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28/02/2014 12:50:24

ziggy72Muvizu mogulExperimental user
ziggy72
Posts: 1988
as well.
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28/02/2014 15:06:47

DyllyMuvizu mogulExperimental user
Dylly
Posts: 555
I suppose there will be no surprise that I would take a break from animating my biopic of Alex Salmond, loosely based on the story of Robinson Crusoe, to stick my head above the parapet on this subject.

There have been one or two comments in this thread that have come as a bit of a shock to Muvizu users...and I don’t really know what to think about them.

As Muvizu users we have all felt the cold draft from the swinging door of recent changes at Muvizu. Over the years we have been given an animation product and asked to ‘run with it’. We've tested it, pushed it further than it was meant to go, quite often we broke it, we’ve moaned about it, occasionally ranted about it, some of us spend more time with it that we do our families, but ultimately we love it.

Muvizu could be standing at a crossroads as Toon says, indeed it could be a bathroom prior to the disposal of baby, bath, water and the rubber duck. Perhaps a better analogy would be Hull City Football Club? What I believe this thread demonstrates is a need for a conversation between Muvizu and it’s users, a two way conversation. Going back to Toon’s reply ‘It really would be useful to provide some information of the roadmap’. Talk to us, tell us the reasons behind something, let us know what the hell is happening, we will listen and then in turn listen to what we have to say. After all we are all aware that at some point we the users will need to spend cash as well as the hours we currently invest in the Muvizu project.

Now to going back to the original post. So the decision has already been made to close the asset library to new submissions and someone is hopping around on one leg whilst bleeding from the self inflicted bullet wound in the other. The alternative that is being proposed is to use Turbosquid or similar vendor marketplace for the dissemination of assets which Muvizu users feel are vital to the validity of Muvizu as a current and future animation tool. ‘Houston we have a problem’!

Ever tried to get a Muvizu ready asset into the Turbosquid Marketplace? I have. Muvizu assets are very different in their stripped down construction to other assets in the Marketplace. To integrate assets into Muvizu we tinker with materials and the colour range, application of maps, scale, collision meshes and topology. All of which mean that a standard Muvizu asset fails the acceptance criteria for other marketplaces. In addition to this, many marketplaces rely on the services of testers who are not familiar with the requirements of Muvizu and dismiss Muvizu assets out of hand. Muvizu requires a marketplace of its own with its own testers and its own certificate of standards for quality to remain viable.

If it is a case that Muvizu users have to organise such a marketplace, I do have the server space and capacity to host such a project. But we would need help from other Muvizu users as testers, moderators, and asset creators. I would also need some support from Muvizu in with regard to information on new developments, tie in with existing and future product, marketing opportunities, permissions for logo use , limitations on liability for both parties etc. Its not a project that someone should consider lightly...but I am considering it as a possibility.

So what does everyone think? Is it a possibility...is it something everyone would like to see?
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28/02/2014 15:40:59

InsaneHamster
InsaneHamster
Posts: 272
I have to agree with Toonarama, I have been saying since I started using Muvizu was the fact that users are very dependent on Muvizu to create animations, characters, etc, etc, etc. When this is the case and it is; then it becomes very frustrating due to the cookie cutter effect.

People start getting tired of the same ole thing and start wanting new fresh stuff almost monthly. (I think this is really human nature to be impatient) and they forget what it take to develop software. But then you (software developer ) have to find a balance between releasing new content and major updates. The only saving grace are people like Urban, Fazz, Ziggy, and others who share assets and who take time out of their busy schedules to create custom assets for other users at no cost. ( I spam Urban a lot lol)

Now I am not sure if or why the reason why you would want to create a non user friendly atmosphere as that's what seems to be the case here. The one thing that I always loved about Muvizu was how the people here and Devs included are so friendly. Everything a user needed was in one area.

I think maybe a little post from HQ stating what is the reasoning behind moving the assets so we as users aren't just assuming and getting all bent out of shape over something that in the end is in fact something that needs to be done out of necessity.

I test a lot of games and it's funny really how players get use to something and then developers will take it away or change it and you think the end of the world happened. People grumble threaten to leave blah blah blah. But after about 2 weeks (honeymoon period) people act like it was always that way. Same will be here in the end it is ultimately your decision but I just hope that you will take the time to talk with us about the change and don't take the "It's our way or no way!" attitude. Muvizu is very dependent on Users, lets face it we are free advertisement and nothing gets a product out there than word of mouth and YouTube spammed with animations from Muvizu users.

I am sure it cost a lot to keep hosting all these assets and no one I think can argue that if it's a budget cut thing, then assets would be the place to cut. After all Muvizu doesn't host all the video's that user create, They go through youtube. I imagine the same will happen to our assets. So in a way we are use to it already. Only thing is it won't be so accommodating for people that make assets for other users.

I am rambling I haven't had no coffee yet this morning so I am out Drink
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28/02/2014 15:44:39

InsaneHamster
InsaneHamster
Posts: 272
So in short Dylly what you are saying is Muvizu is a niche group! I have to agree and like most niche products people won't cater to them due to the small demand of the product compared to main stream products.
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28/02/2014 15:46:09

urbanlamb
urbanlamb
(Account inactive)
Posts: 1796
tis a nice gesture dylly I myself would not host it and for many reasons. I had someone else pm me about this because they had an "unlimited" account. When I showed them how and what unlimited meant they changed their mind. In short do you have someone with the time and tech ability and well sheer will to set up and run 1+ dedicated servers

If so I can moderate I absolutely wont work on server side anything anymore my days of doing that "for fun" are long gone. I dont mind to moderate but personal experience has taught me that timewise and bandwidth wise it turns into more then a full time job. I just want to make sure your aware of what your getting yourself into before you commit with this magnanimous offer. I myself am no sugar daddy I dont mind helping but wont take on the responsibility of such a thing on top of it I feel myself that the company is making a mistake by delocalizing this. The community is slowly breaking. The video gallery is on cpr as well my uploads no longer work and now I am to take my assets elsewhere.

I dont want to offend muvizu because I stuck around for a reason but I have been unable to upload a video for awhile now and been patiently awaiting the gallery to be repaired and now i am told i cant upload anymore assets. Is there a point in me spending any time with this community any longer? I put my heart and soul into it and was encouraged to participate so I did. Now I must pack up my bags and go back into my cave. I appreciate what muvizu has done for me so please dont take this as me being unappreciative because I have been trying to hand you my money for a long long time, but it does appear muvizu doesn't really want my money or me. Fair enough I can take a hint :P

*toddles off to iclone* there I said it. I guess they will continue to receive my business and I wont have to make any decisions. Its a shame really my heart is broken again I think.
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28/02/2014 15:51:14

urbanlamb
urbanlamb
(Account inactive)
Posts: 1796
InsaneHamster wrote:

People start getting tired of the same ole thing and start wanting new fresh stuff almost monthly. (I think this is really human nature to be impatient) and they forget what it take to develop software. But then you (software developer ) have to find a balance between releasing new content and major updates. The only saving grace are people like Urban, Fazz, Ziggy, and others who share assets and who take time out of their busy schedules to create custom assets for other users at no cost. ( I spam Urban a lot lol)




I will get your phone to you on the weekend I am sorry I had wanted to do it last night but life would not allow it and about all i did was fall into bed and drool at the tv. Its a 10 minute job I just have to find the 10 minutes sorry mr hamster
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