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Home ? Publishing Your Video ? Youtube and copyright issues

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05/02/2013 12:16:13

Not_Coen
Not_Coen
Posts: 9
After 2 or 3 years waiting to return to Muvizu with a computer capable of handling its needs, I'm just about to try testing it on my daughter's spare machine. It will only be running Windows and associated stuff like Media Player, Audacity etc. together with Muvizu - so here's hoping.

As a prelude to all that, I've been happily working my may through lots of Muvizu movies in the gallery and/or on Youtube and these have raised a BIG question in my mind .....

How come so many movies use actual soundtracks from TV programmes or music from CD's without Youtube slamming down hard and blocking them or requiring an audio swap?

Over the last few years, I've done a lot of animation and demos using other animation programs (especially Artoonix). Again and again I've had copyright warnings even if I've used a converted midifile for a song or tune. Same again for those rare occasions I've used an actual CD track. I always add a copyright disclaimer to the info notes for my uploads, but their systems seem able to detect copyright infringements withinin nano-seconds.

So how come I have found so many Muvizu uploads which go a lot further than I ever have in the way of using commercial TV or CD soundtracks?

It's a mystery that I hope you can solve.
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05/02/2013 12:31:01

Marco_D
Marco_D
Posts: 582
Hi Not_Coen,

Welcome back to Muvizu.

Sometimes how YouTube handles copyright material is a mystery to all of us. Basically it's up to those who make the copyright claims. Depending on the record label, Tv channel, music bands, they all have different views on what to block and not to block.
If a record label says to YouTube, block all full songs people post, but not if it's only a short piece of the song then YouTube will only block the content if the song is fully on the video.

They even allow a normal user to make a claim over content. Then whoever made the claim has 2-3 weeks to make their case, otherwise the block is lifted.

It's really up to them, they own the copyrights so they have all the power.

I'm sure other users bumped into many different situations and so they will be able to provide additional feedback.

As to Muvizu, we can only display content YouTube makes available for sharing. Hence we have no saying on the matter. Although if the video comes through the YouTube system and it's not proper for our audience we may restrict it or block it.

I hope this helps you to understand how this works.

Cheers,
Marco
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05/02/2013 14:50:10

Lev_Dynamite
Lev_Dynamite
Posts: 157
Every few months we send Larry Page, Google CEO, a photo of Marco_D holding a baseball bat with the caption "don't mess with our users' videos" under it. That seems to keep 'em in line.

Nah, to be honest there is no obvious reason why a Muvizu user's video would be more or less likely to get picked-up for copyright infringement than anyone else's videos. Just blind luck, I guess. Obviously we do not condone the use of using copyrighted material without permission in videos, but maybe putting those copyright notices in your descriptions are drawing attention to what you're doing wrong rather than masking it in any way...?
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05/02/2013 19:44:50

urbanlamb
urbanlamb
(Account inactive)
Posts: 1796
one day some guy in a suit decided to mix up the concept of copyright with "making money" and license to use and on youtube its a complicated mess

I wanted one day to sit down and write about all the crazyness that is youboob's content ID system and what it really means lol but have yet to have time to

Technically everything is copyrighted and for the most part youtube is actually pretty bad at protecting actual copyright and more into protecting companies wanting to make money or who have the right to make money off of stuff that the person may or may not have the right to claim copyright to

here is an example: It will probably explain why your midi files get hit with a content ID match

The works of Johann Sebastian Bach can only be claimed as copyright by Johann Sebastian Bach
and since he is dead the library of congress has relegated his work into the public domain (this is american public domain which most people follow as what should be public domain and what is not)..

one day a guy named walt disney decided to make a movie called fantasia and hire an orchestra to make
the sound track

Then disney studio's discovered youboob. They do not hold copyright to the music its not legal but they do hold copyright to the movie and the music even though they performed it is not theirs but its a really nice recording and who doesn't like toccata and Fugue in D minor by Bach
or the The Nutcracker Suite by Tchaikovsky?

you also like this music so open up a musical score and make a midi recording of one of these works and also want to put it on your video on youtube but alas disney got there first and instead of just claiming the visual content as their own creation they decided that they want to make money off the recordings which is cool but the minute they do that they are also claiming copyright because youtube has decided that they are one and the same (even though they are not .. )

So boom you submit your midi of toccata and fugue in D minor and walt disney claims it so they can slap an add on it and make money off of it.

And that is the content id system basically and that is why you get these matches. Youtube should not be labelling it as a copyright claim because in many cases they aren't claims to copyright they are claims to the performance.. which are two completely different things but software cant discern between music read off a musical score and played in the same key and tempo.



edit: adding this in after there is a huge repository of public domain content mostly old old radio shows available for use so there are several of us (i am one) who uses these radio shows which are actually free to use and all rights to the recordings have been released. The avengers recordings are another one that are near "the top" which are the south african public domain recordings which is fine and there are a couple of others used as well. Many of us use creative commons music which comes with a re-use license. However often using them can be irritating and often you have artists tagging them anyhow. So you need to contact the artist directly and request to be put on their content ID white list. If you get a match that makes no sense (and there are plenty of them ) and you know for a fact that its wrong or you hold license to use the recording etc then you have the right to dispute the claim and have them unblock your video. Anyhow if you need to know about specifics you will probably have to point out the video. In my case i do sommersaults to make sure I have proper permission and dont use anything that is not designated or licensed for re-use. Of course there are also scam "collecting societies" which is a whole other layer and its copyfraud and you have to dispute it to get it dealt with as well.
edited by urbanlamb on 05/02/2013
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14/04/2013 17:21:46

theKodu
theKodu
Posts: 25
On copyright.

Having dealt with this personally I can say the following.

Most companies are fairly good on the issue. Youtube is normally set up to auto detect certain things in videos so sometimes its best to just appeal and the company, if you're using the content as you're allowed under fair use, will let it go. I had one video pulled due to the use of a single line of audio from South Park. I appealed and actually had an apology message come through from someone at the South Park studios, which was very nice of them.

If a company does a full copyright claim on you, when you appeal point out to them how they're losing out essentially, if they wish to have adverts on your video then be prepared to accept that to have the content up if they feel they're not getting enough advertisement out of it and want cold hard cash.

Know what copyrighted material you have used and who is likely to hold the copyright, on youtube this is key a there are companies out there who prey on this. If you see a content claim, first check out the company, then if they are claiming ownership rights and they don't own it immediately dispute it stating the actual owners, and any information you have from a google search of the company.
If they are claiming copyright on the grounds of distribution rights, firstly contact the original content owners if possible (most companies have a commercial enquiries / sale email contact, it can take about a month to get a reply but this gives you firepower). Now you have the original owner saying this company is not allowed then file a dispute and state that if required you can present evidence from the original content owner that said company has no claim over it.

Having a company agree to help with a dispute in this was often works best if you point out it benefits them too and if you feel strongly enough tell said actual content owner that if they wish they can then claim to have adverts on some or all of the disputed work and you'll accept their claim. This gives them a reason to want to fight to help you as you get to keep your video up, sure maybe not making money but you know its at least going to the right person. Also by doing this companies often will allow your video to stay up globally.

If you become a full partner you can take claims higher and dispute them after a company has rejected them, through youtube.

If a company rejects your first dispute and you know you are in the right, contact them via email outside of youtube and state your case. If its got this far and a company is carrying on a false claim its useful to remind them the following.
Firstly the copyright rules that they must be or have the express permission of the content owner to claim this
Secondly the terms of the Digital Media Copyright Act detailing to the rights of the person using it. so fair use concepts along with pointing out that it is illegal for them to submit a false claim.
Thirdly remind them politely that by making a false DMCA if you challenge it and they lose that they are liable to you for a flat cost on top of your perceived loss of earnings.
finally point out how either they are losing free advertising by its use or creating negativity towards the company.

I've done this a a couple of times, once against Apple corporation who made a claim with two other companies all on a single song that was public domain. Its amazing how quickly even huge companies will back off if you display you know your rights.
If you have a video removed additional its a very good bargaining tool to put a video up detailing why the first was removed or is gone and showing clearly the companies claims, then stating how they are wrong and abusing DMCA. What this does is create negative press for the company so if they have made a false claim, you're showing them up and telling other people to be aware so you'll potentially also stop them from scamming off other people not just off you.

Music wise it's tough I have to say.

As it stands, sheet music can be public domain but the performance of it can be copyright so make sure the recording is out of copyright not simply the music.

Basically Disney have every right to copyright claim people using the Fantasia soundtrack as its their orchestral performance that's copyright. What you need to do is to find a recording of the music played that's out of copyright or was done by an orchestra that allow it for public domain use.
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14/04/2013 17:56:00

WozToonsExperimental user
WozToons
Posts: 494
Great posts and very useful information. Thanks.
edited by WozToons on 14/04/2013
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14/04/2013 18:30:45

urbanlamb
urbanlamb
(Account inactive)
Posts: 1796
theKodu wrote:
On copyright.



Basically Disney have every right to copyright claim people using the Fantasia soundtrack as its their orchestral performance that's copyright. What you need to do is to find a recording of the music played that's out of copyright or was done by an orchestra that allow it for public domain use.




The system tags and can tag eroneously hence the post. This particular one is a personal experience and the reason why some people are making music themselves and getting it tagged. In my case it was a midi file I made from scratch from the sheet music in the public domain. It is quite common. So you need to dispute it. Unfortunately the claims can still be rejected. However recently youtube put in another layer in their dispute process. The other issue is youtube and video monetization which now everyone has the ability to do. Youtube will reject this and not believe that you made the music (also quite common) and it takes a lot of hoop jumping to get them to believe you made the music and often they choose to not believe you. As a result of my personal experiences I have joined up with a content aggregator to remove this problem as anything I made now I can claim as mine its cut down immensly on the false matches. Unfortunately you will still get matches even if you get the music from the public domain since in many cases they are copying something else as well so you need to dispute. There are less rejected claims now that they put in this new layer for false matches because the rejection means that you can reappeal and that they are then forced into the position of issuing a dmca take down notice. If they are wrong and it is your music you can then take legal action against them and counterfile so they are being more careful now as they have no choice.

Also be careful of fair use. This is american law and fair use is not as broad in most other countries. Fair use also doesnt mean (even in the US) that you can use a popular music piece and make a video of it. So if your going to use fair use make sure what your countries version is. In Canada the laws are a lot more strict and fair use is limited to education and news reporting. Many people do abuse it and stretch its limits so be very careful on this one if you take that path be 100% sure what your doing is really fair use or you can loose your channel and get copyright strikes. 3 strikes means your channel is gone and often its hard to start a new one
edited by urbanlamb on 14/04/2013
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14/04/2013 20:23:37

DreekoMuvizu mogulExperimental user
Dreeko
Posts: 1258
Here's a nice video about copyright

http://vimeo.com/36881035#
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14/04/2013 20:26:39

theKodu
theKodu
Posts: 25
urbanlamb wrote:



The system tags and can tag eroneously hence the post. This particular one is a personal experience and the reason why some people are making music themselves and getting it tagged. In my case it was a midi file I made from scratch from the sheet music in the public domain. It is quite common. So you need to dispute it. Unfortunately the claims can still be rejected. However recently youtube put in another layer in their dispute process. The other issue is youtube and video monetization which now everyone has the ability to do. Youtube will reject this and not believe that you made the music (also quite common) and it takes a lot of hoop jumping to get them to believe you made the music and often they choose to not believe you. As a result of my personal experiences I have joined up with a content aggregator to remove this problem as anything I made now I can claim as mine its cut down immensly on the false matches. Unfortunately you will still get matches even if you get the music from the public domain since in many cases they are copying something else as well so you need to dispute. There are less rejected claims now that they put in this new layer for false matches because the rejection means that you can reappeal and that they are then forced into the position of issuing a dmca take down notice. If they are wrong and it is your music you can then take legal action against them and counterfile so they are being more careful now as they have no choice.


If the company rejected the claim as I had done with one of mine. emailing them does often help remind the company of their obligations.

Oddly if you're still having issues of this nature there are some preventative measures you can take.

First when you record just get some poor phone level footage of you doing it or keep the original raw files if you edit them to get better sound / match perfect takes together as such.
Before you upload your video containing the original music you've made, upload the video of you playing it or the Raw file and place the video as unlisted.
If you then upload the video with the music and get a copyright notice you can then point out its public domain and your own personal performance of it by linking to the unlisted video proving you produced it.
The company will then either back down, or they'll then reject and file a copyright claim on the unlisted video.
If they file a copyright claim on the unlisted video proving you are the owner of the content, they have pretty much opened themselves up to being sued right there as that video is proof you made the content and clearly original. also the only way they could have got the URL would have been from your appeal to the main copyright claim.
Essentially a company has to be a real scumbag of a company to file a copyright claim your evidence of ownership and as such now they open themselves up to legal action (which its nice to remind them about.)
the use of the raw files means that companies can check the wave forms for your raw stuff and in theory notice the same ones in the video they are claiming copyright of content in.

I actually got this information form someone on youtube who actually does make a lot of his own music and used to have trouble with such claims on his own original pieces, for him at least he claimed he was having copyright claims dropped within the day of appealing that way.
urbanlamb wrote:

Also be careful of fair use. This is american law and fair use is not as broad in most other countries. Fair use also doesnt mean (even in the US) that you can use a popular music piece and make a video of it. So if your going to use fair use make sure what your countries version is. In Canada the laws are a lot more strict and fair use is limited to education and news reporting. Many people do abuse it and stretch its limits so be very careful on this one if you take that path be 100% sure what your doing is really fair use or you can loose your channel and get copyright strikes. 3 strikes means your channel is gone and often its hard to start a new one
edited by urbanlamb on 14/04/2013

Fair use does vary from country to country but the best way to look at it is you can use it if you're mocking / doing a parody (though oddly this isn't in Canadian law) or if you are doing a review of the piece. I know some reviewers do use other copyrighted content they aren't technically reviewing but to be safe unless its the thing you're reviewing under copyright, try to go elsewhere for it.

Also youtube has started allowing copyright strikes to be removed etc now. Starting a new channel isn't actually hard the only hard bit is getting adsense re-approval as you lose the adsense account along with the channel. Though again there are plenty of other routes you can take. blip Tv being a good one, Dailymotion too has started to offer ad based pay like youtube as well.

Again you'd have to specifically check for where you live but its often good as an opener to a dispute before having to delve too deep into copyright law
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18/04/2013 14:14:24

vanessakate
vanessakate
Posts: 1
YouTube copyright issues are very sensitive, they block a video even if you try to watch the same video from the same ip many times in the same day. Because they think that you are using it to increase the views.
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19/04/2013 11:15:47

JamieMuvizu staff
Jamie
(Account inactive)
Posts: 609
Thanks for this thread - there is a lot of information here and its well worth reading. The video Dreeko posted gives an interesting insight.

--
Direct, don't animate!
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