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15/04/2013 15:47:36

simonhefferMuvizu mogulExperimental user
simonheffer
Posts: 225
My 2p'th:
Sounds like we are trying to add all the Prepare and Direct menus into the timeline. Sounds far too busy to me. It was unclear whether those buttons Prepared or Directed (or both). And there was no Clapper-board button.

I'd prefer a right-click context menu on scene items to adding stuff to the timeline (as per Dreeko). That way you only get the relevant actions for the object type you've selected and the timeline is not in the way if you want to select a different item.

As we have a lot more items on the timeline would having a way to focus on the currently selected object be useful?(eg we've looked at lots of objects in the timeline now we want to go back to Helga). Maybe the Home button or just re-select the object in the scene.

Simon
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15/04/2013 15:58:06

MrDrWho13Muvizu mogulExperimental user
MrDrWho13
Posts: 2220
I don't follow... please explain.
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15/04/2013 16:00:16

simonhefferMuvizu mogulExperimental user
simonheffer
Posts: 225
Er - I made 3 points here - you want me to explain them all?
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15/04/2013 16:40:34

MrDrWho13Muvizu mogulExperimental user
MrDrWho13
Posts: 2220
Yes please, sorry.
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15/04/2013 17:13:59

simonhefferMuvizu mogulExperimental user
simonheffer
Posts: 225
simonheffer wrote:
My 2p'th:
Sounds like we are trying to add all the Prepare and Direct menus into the timeline. Sounds far too busy to me. It was unclear whether those buttons Prepared or Directed (or both). And there was no Clapper-board button.

So I guess the Action/Movement button will either Prepare a new character Movement section or Direct one or... (this wasn't clear to me).
Busy = too much on the dialog.
Where's the Direct button (or is there another view of the time line for directing).
simonheffer wrote:

I'd prefer a right-click context menu on scene items to adding stuff to the timeline (as per Dreeko). That way you only get the relevant actions for the object type you've selected and the timeline is not in the way if you want to select a different item.

If I want to do something to Helga I right-click on her and a menu pops up allowing me to select Prepare/<action> or Direct/<action> or Properties. Pretty standard fare on Windows. Besides even on your version if I want to now do something to Fred I still have to select him and then go back to the timeline. I think Right-click is quicker.
simonheffer wrote:

As we have a lot more items on the timeline would having a way to focus on the currently selected object be useful?(eg we've looked at lots of objects in the timeline now we want to go back to Helga). Maybe the Home button or just re-select the object in the scene.

e.g. Re-selecting Helga would bring the Helga part of the Timeline into view.
Simon

Better?
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15/04/2013 17:31:23

MrDrWho13Muvizu mogulExperimental user
MrDrWho13
Posts: 2220
simonheffer wrote:
simonheffer wrote:
My 2p'th:
Sounds like we are trying to add all the Prepare and Direct menus into the timeline. Sounds far too busy to me. It was unclear whether those buttons Prepared or Directed (or both). And there was no Clapper-board button.

So I guess the Action/Movement button will either Prepare a new character Movement section or Direct one or... (this wasn't clear to me).
Busy = too much on the dialog.
Where's the Direct button (or is there another view of the time line for directing).
simonheffer wrote:

I'd prefer a right-click context menu on scene items to adding stuff to the timeline (as per Dreeko). That way you only get the relevant actions for the object type you've selected and the timeline is not in the way if you want to select a different item.

If I want to do something to Helga I right-click on her and a menu pops up allowing me to select Prepare/<action> or Direct/<action> or Properties. Pretty standard fare on Windows. Besides even on your version if I want to now do something to Fred I still have to select him and then go back to the timeline. I think Right-click is quicker.
simonheffer wrote:

As we have a lot more items on the timeline would having a way to focus on the currently selected object be useful?(eg we've looked at lots of objects in the timeline now we want to go back to Helga). Maybe the Home button or just re-select the object in the scene.

e.g. Re-selecting Helga would bring the Helga part of the Timeline into view.
Simon


Better?
Yeah, thanks.
1. Hmmm... I think prepare would be best, then if you want to direct, you hit the direct button.
2. Yeah, the direct and prepare right click buttons are a great idea
3. Yes, re-selecting Helga would bring back her timeline.
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15/04/2013 17:42:53

urbanlamb
urbanlamb
(Account inactive)
Posts: 1796
myself i am not looking to add anything else to the timeline..

what i want to see because quite frankly its unusuable with more then a couple of selections is those menus with the arrows that expand to a 20 mile long list that i have to somehow sort through and the ability to add and remove things easily without going insane in a single click and not have the choices made for me because this is causing a huge issue.

anyhow there is really only a few ways this can be done

the view scene window is an example of a usable menu that can be pretty much duplicated and used as a menu for the timeline but this menu needs to be seperate so we can see it and use it and pick and choose from it. Then we need a way to easily remove stuff we are done with in the timeline this usually is done not with unclicking boxes but by using links as its much easier to use and faster .

anyhow my fears are to be honest that well firstly the community is having to give such heavy input into what a functional design is and that its becoming a sort of battle between different user types. Anyhow lets hope that what gets produced is something we ALL can use. Having worked with so many types of software I have seen most companies settle on the same basic layout each and everytime for a "complicated timeline" so really there isnt a whole heck of a lot of choice. The only thing i dont want to see happen is muvizu make the choices for me. This is okay at a beginner level but once you get used to something and want to make it do your bidding having stuff done automatically is actually pretty annoying and a huge waste of time as you spend time undoing all that automatic stuff before you can move forward.
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17/04/2013 07:16:41

EEFilmzExperimental user
EEFilmz
Posts: 397
Hello all, I haven't created in "play" yet, but I will say this, I tried to read everything in this thread and found myself drifting with a bad headache and a stomach ache. I liked the old layout, I basically adapted to the changes over the last 2 years. In the previous Timeline version, the only beef I had was the UNDO feature would screw up everytime trying to undo a change, and all actions etc in that line were lost! That was Hell. In my last video: EEF - Trail Of Blood - Part 1% - Part 2, I had approximately 27 bikers(and other characters), 27 bikes, 27 explosions, at least 27 fires, and other actors, furniture actions, and everything had to be Timed perfectly to sync with the music I wanted to use. I LOVE the SCENE WINDOW and ALL that it does, like being able to select a ton of items at once and select to animate the same objcet property in one click like I did with the bikes, and then just adjust the timing in the timeline slightly=HUGE timesaver! ...SIMPLE IS GOOD, LESS IS MORE and the old Timeline layout wasn't an issue for me, but that's my own opinion, and maybe it's impossible, but here's one Idea I have: What if you took the old layout, plus the added features that now exist like snapping etc whatever (I haven't used it so I dunno), and display Timeline and scene window together side-by-side with linked-usage capabilities of the scene window with the Timeline? so, if you have 35 out of 40 characters jumpin or dancin or whatever, all you do is select them in the scene window, now ONLY the 35 jumping show up in the Timeline window, then you assign the action, or property animation etc, and then tweak in the Timeline while viewing both scene window and timeline at the same time in side-by-side windows with all the buttons and listings on the same level, and at the same size! Personally I don't like the idea of having big overlay buttons over smaller lists behind on the timeline like some of the images I see in this post...it's not something I want to deal with at all...For me simplicity in Timeline layout and something close to what Muvizu has always been great and the scene window is just genius, so if those 2 were linked and displayed together or the option of that was available that'd be awesome. Sorry I don't wish to upset or disagree with anyone's thoughts or ideas, just adding my own opinion if it's feasable. I'm still wondering why Muvizu felt the need to change the "layout" of the Timeline anyway. As I said, I haven't really used the new version yet, so take this for whatever it's worth...I quote the great Rolling Stones: "We can't always get what we want We can't always get what we want but if we try sometimes, we just might find we get what we need..Oh Yeah..." Thanks - EEFilmz
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17/04/2013 19:59:22

ziggy72Muvizu mogulExperimental user
ziggy72
Posts: 1988
EEFilmz wrote:
LOVE the SCENE WINDOW and ALL that it does, like being able to select a ton of items at once and select to animate the same objcet property in one click like I did with the bikes, and then just adjust the timing in the timeline slightly

Didn't ever think of doing that - nice one EEF!

EEFilmz wrote:
What if you took the old layout, plus the added features that now exist like snapping etc whatever (I haven't used it so I dunno), and display Timeline and scene window together side-by-side with linked-usage capabilities of the scene window with the Timeline?

Yes, yes, bloody yes! That is much better than my version
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17/04/2013 20:32:18

urbanlamb
urbanlamb
(Account inactive)
Posts: 1796
ziggy72 wrote:
EEFilmz wrote:
LOVE the SCENE WINDOW and ALL that it does, like being able to select a ton of items at once and select to animate the same objcet property in one click like I did with the bikes, and then just adjust the timing in the timeline slightly

Didn't ever think of doing that - nice one EEF!

EEFilmz wrote:
What if you took the old layout, plus the added features that now exist like snapping etc whatever (I haven't used it so I dunno), and display Timeline and scene window together side-by-side with linked-usage capabilities of the scene window with the Timeline?

Yes, yes, bloody yes! That is much better than my version



lol well that was my mockup but it was dismissed as too complicated unfortunately I dont see a whole lot of other choices the view scene window is manageable and it breaks stuff up into nice little groups it just needs submenus for each of the items so we can select. The view scene windows is something that we can obviously manage because its been there forever and it didnt seem to cause any issues.
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17/04/2013 21:16:59

ziggy72Muvizu mogulExperimental user
ziggy72
Posts: 1988
Yes, quite right Urban, I should really have said "my version of UrbanLamb's idea". My bad
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17/04/2013 21:33:30

DreekoMuvizu mogulExperimental user
Dreeko
Posts: 1258
ziggy72 wrote:
Yes, quite right Urban, I should really have said "my version of UrbanLamb's idea". My bad


I wouldn't worry about the whole who's idea was who's thing. We have all made so many suggestions over the years that we have all probably had the same ideas at one point or another!

cue video..


edited by Dreeko on 17/04/2013
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17/04/2013 21:43:04

urbanlamb
urbanlamb
(Account inactive)
Posts: 1796
yeah i wasn't commenting on it in that way its just when i posted the photo it apparently was too complicated unfortunately I dont see what else to do anyhow. *cough* would be nice if i could use muvizu play but my experience last night trying to load a set and work in it was the same except I got to hide everything in a single click but judging from the lack of lag (that should have occured as the items were removed from the timelines) when I clicked that Hide option it was just a visual fix and those eleventy seven million items were actually still loaded into the timeline even if i couldn't see em Cause i sure was lagging after i clicked hide
*begs once more for rollback*

*walks off to play with iclone*
edited by urbanlamb on 17/04/2013
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17/04/2013 21:58:23

DreekoMuvizu mogulExperimental user
Dreeko
Posts: 1258
urbanlamb wrote:
when I clicked that Hide option it was just a visual fix and those eleventy seven million items were actually still loaded into the timeline even if i couldn't see em Cause i sure was lagging after i clicked hide


I'm sure functionality will win over visual aesthetics, cos as you say, If they are merely hidden and still causing a lag then that aint good
...A clutter is still a clutter even if it is swept under the sofa out of view

But (and as an atheist this is a strange thing for me to say...) Sometimes you just have to have faith, and in Muvizu I trust!
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18/04/2013 00:35:52

EEFilmzExperimental user
EEFilmz
Posts: 397
ziggy72 wrote:
EEFilmz wrote:
LOVE the SCENE WINDOW and ALL that it does, like being able to select a ton of items at once and select to animate the same objcet property in one click like I did with the bikes, and then just adjust the timing in the timeline slightly

Didn't ever think of doing that - nice one EEF!

EEFilmz wrote:
What if you took the old layout, plus the added features that now exist like snapping etc whatever (I haven't used it so I dunno), and display Timeline and scene window together side-by-side with linked-usage capabilities of the scene window with the Timeline?

Yes, yes, bloody yes! That is much better than my version


Glad that was helpful ziggy! believe me I am lazy so when I created all those bikes my brain thought hmmm wonder if I can do this...and I hwas happy as a pig in $%^ when I found out you could animate multiple objects' properties in one click! plus it makes it easier to find an object when there are alot of objects or objects not necessarily in view. It just seems like a no brainer to link those 2 very useful tools (Timeline & Scene Window) to work together simultaneously in tandem..

@ Urbanlamb, sorry if I missed it but I had a bad bad headache and had to stop reading and starting skimming the forum after getting lost in reading. Also, in the past, as far as "lag" during production, Muvizu staff told me I think back when I did one of my KISS videos I had SERIOUS lag time messing everything up, and they said try working in UNLIT mode, and then revert back to LIT mode when rendering. It worked for me on that particular set, not sure if that's help you though. Good luck! - EEF
edited by EEFilmz on 18/04/2013
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18/04/2013 15:30:30

NeilExperimental userMuvizu staff
Neil
Posts: 396
Me again. I wanted to give you a quick heads-up on where we're at. We're hoping to get a new patch out early next week to fix the load/save errors and to fix the worst of the problems with the timeline.

Regarding the timeline, I wanted to show you some screenshots of how we're going to tackle it (at least initally).

This is Muvizu after loading the Gears Rock Stage set. As you can see, the timeline is nicely empty and doesn't have a million objects listed in it that will take you 8 hours to hide.



Now, if I create a character in this scene and then direct a few actions on him, my timeline will automatically show the "Actions" track for hat character.



You can decide to hide the character from the timeline if you want, using the completely revamped filter dialog:



When it opens, everything is collapsed so it's quick and easy to find the object or character you want to hide. When you get there, there are three options: shown, hidden, and show if animated. This last option is what everything is set to by default, so things will only appear on the timeline once they've actually been directed in some way. Of course, there are buttons across the bottom to hide everything, show everything or reset everything back to the default setting.

After this next patch, we'll look at making further changes to the timeline to address some of your other issues.
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18/04/2013 15:42:40

simonhefferMuvizu mogulExperimental user
simonheffer
Posts: 225
Great stuff - now onto waypoints!!!
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18/04/2013 15:47:12

Marco_D
Marco_D
Posts: 582
I know my opinion is biased, but that looks awesome

Cheers,
Marco
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18/04/2013 15:52:09

MrDrWho13Muvizu mogulExperimental user
MrDrWho13
Posts: 2220
Great stuff Neil, thanks for the update!
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18/04/2013 18:00:31

urbanlamb
urbanlamb
(Account inactive)
Posts: 1796
oh that looks nice and its big and seperate from the timeline so we can like make it larger and smaller and not have to fiddle so much. I will be waiting impatiently of course to be able to use my mammoth sets again
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